The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Science & Nature => Topic started by: jaydub on March 14, 2011, 08:37:40 pm
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The media appears to be continually muffing this issue, so here's a competent report
(http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/). I hope this snafu doesn't derail the momentum that we had been building towards re-invigorating nuclear power in the US. Fortunately, an objective view of the Japanese situation is that they're effectively handling an emergency well outside the parameters the plant was built to withstand.
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This situation still seems to be going from bad to worse, the latest explosion is not like the last two that are reassuringly explained away in that link, so perhaps we shouldn't speak too soon.
I started off feeling that if anyone could handle this technology, the Japanese could. I just watched a press conference with the power company officials that pretty severely damaged my confidence.
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I got into a big argument with a friend of mine the other night about nuclear power and how there was nothing to worry about and it's still better than pumping your damn by products into the atmos and now this morning I hear they've had another explosion and the pressure has dropped in the containment thingy and radioactivity in the surrounding area has gone up. So I'm worried Japan is going to embarrass me.
DON'T YOU DARE EMBARRASS ME AGAIN JAPAN!
Interesting site though, since the first few articles in his 'renewables' section are all about how nuclear power is better than wind and other options I'm wondering if he's beating a particular drum though. Still, good read.
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From the most recent press conference:
'As of 10.22am, we are talking about radiation levels that can damage human health. Please embrace this information calmly.'
People are supposed to be evacuated within 20 km; people within 20-30 km are being told to stay indoors. NHK is now explaining that this means you should close windows and doors, wipe off your clothing and shoes, don't use ventilation that will bring in outside air, and if you have laundry hanging outside don't take it inside.
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Has Godzilla been notified?
Mothra? Gamera?
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I hope this snafu doesn't derail the momentum that we had been building towards re-invigorating nuclear power in the US.
Unfortunately, it probably will. I'm no nuclear scientist, but from what I've read, the nuke plants in Japan that are having issues are of a design from the 1970's. Newer designs and technologies are much safer. But I suspect too may people will go for the knee-jerk "nuclear SCARY!" rather than understanding what happened and what is possible for new plants.
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Excellent (and quite readable) analysis of the reactors at the SA Forums (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3396817), by way of Fark.
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understanding what happened and what is possible for new plants.
Can you direct me to reliable information that explains how new plants could withstand both an earthquake and tsunami of that magnitude? If that is true, I'd love to be convinced of it. I'm sure newer designs are safer under normal circumstances but my understanding is that the problem here has to do with assuming that multiple failures won't happen at the same time. And I am afraid that this is the sort of overconfidence that is not confined to designers in the 1970s.
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Here's a good one:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/china.html
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TANGENT:
Gamera?
gamera is really neat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNy73PP-YeI)
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That Wired article is fascinating. A reactor you can walk away from to get pizza is just the thing. I'd feel better if it wasn't all about China and was more about how everyone in the world is only planning to build that kind from now on.
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That article was written 7 years ago. So are they producing hydrogen in China yet?
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And our government is just repeating "our nuclear reactors are designed to withstand natural disasters."
This article from today's Washington Post makes a brief reference to Chinese reactors being water-cooled by gravity instead of pumped water. Doesn't sound like the kind of major leap forward described in the Wired article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japan-crisis-revives-global-nuclear-debate/2011/03/15/ABdu2PY_story.html?hpid=z3 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japan-crisis-revives-global-nuclear-debate/2011/03/15/ABdu2PY_story.html?hpid=z3)
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From an article I read a few days ago I'm pretty sure that three out of the four Japanese reactors were gravity fed as well, it was the pump one that was causing problems. Not sure if there's been a knock on effect now or something because I thought I saw that two cores were exposed this morning.
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Either you were misinformed or your recollection is incorrect. The cooling systems are not gravity fed, the lack of electricity knocked out cooling to all of them.
Here is an explanation of the design of these reactors.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/ (http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/)
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Prob my memory is just shot full of holes. I wonder what I was reading.
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Your brain is just full of important medical information, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN--atshVqs).
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Prob my memory is just shot full of holes. I wonder what I was reading.
Probably also you are not spending eighteen hours a day following this news like I am.
They could have been talking about other plants. The one that's most in the news is not the only one that had to shut down.
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Probably also you are not spending eighteen hours a day following this news like I am.
Why are you doing this?
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Well, I have friends there, and have studied the language, and normally spend part of every evening watching NHK English TV programming, so I have a certain degree of connection to the country. And of course all that programming has been pre-empted by coverage of the news so every time I turn the TV on, there it is.
But you know, I also have the internet so perhaps it has gotten a bit out of hand. I have a dozen browser windows open to various sources of information and it is too easy to click over and get sucked into checking whether they are all saying the same thing at any given time. Fortunately, the time is different enough that most of the people on Twitter go to bed in the middle of my day so at least I can get some work done when, with only the news sites to check.
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President Obama appeared on ESPN this week, in a taped segment, running down his picks for the NCAA tournament. And there are apparently people saying "How can he spend time on something so frivolous, when there's all this stuff going on in Japan and Wisconsin and everything else?!" Those are probably the same people who complain about everything the president does, so I take it with a grain of salt.
But I've been thinking a lot lately about all the awfulness in the world, and whether it's somehow bad to try to enjoy my own life when something bad is happening somewhere else. And I've come to the conclusion that it's not. There has always been bad shit going down somewhere in the world or other; now that we are hyper-connected, we are more aware of it than ever before. If I spend time moping and not enjoying myself because of what's happened to Japan, I might as well kill myself right now. Because there will be another bad thing after that, somewhere, and another, and another. Not to say I don't feel badly for them, or that I won't send a few bucks to the Red Cross to try to alleviate the suffering there or elsewhere. But at the same time, I'm going to try to move on with my own stuff.
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Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
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I'm going to try to move on with my own stuff.
I totally agree this is the right thing to do. But for me, Japan is "my own stuff." I am no more caring about distant strangers than the average person. But this affects me directly if only in the trivial way of wondering when I will be able to watch my favorite TV programs every night again. If this had happened somewhere else I'd find it quite sufficient to read one newspaper article a day. But this is affecting places and people that I know and hope to see again someday, and people whose Twitter feeds I am following anyway, and Facebook friends who are posting about it. It would be all up in my face anyway unless I actually cut off many of my usual sources of information.
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I totally agree this is the right thing to do. But for me, Japan is "my own stuff." I am no more caring about distant strangers than the average person. But this affects me directly if only in the trivial way of wondering when I will be able to watch my favorite TV programs every night again. If this had happened somewhere else I'd find it quite sufficient to read one newspaper article a day. But this is affecting places and people that I know and hope to see again someday, and people whose Twitter feeds I am following anyway, and Facebook friends who are posting about it. It would be all up in my face anyway unless I actually cut off many of my usual sources of information.
I hope your friends are OK.
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Hey, did you guys see we finally got a new member? That's right - Spidergoose has moved into the archives!
Sorry.
I wouldn't worry terribly about us not going to nuclear power because of this. It'll happen eventually. The question is whether we'll all be living in domes or underground when we adopt it.
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And I also hope that your friends are ok.
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Wombles, I don't know what kind of phone service you have, but Consumerist has an article today on how some phone companies (including Verizon and AT&T) are dropping all charges for phone calls to Japan until a specified date (some April 15, some April 1). So if you need to get in touch with anyone over there, keep that in mind.
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I wonder if Credo is.