In fact, it rather pisses me off when any male decides that he's entitled to enter into this debate.
How can we not enter into the debate?
i'm of the mind such that i believe discussion is good, especially with parties who have opposing views. compassion, empathy, and a desire to understand are virtues to me.
if i were in a situation wherein a thing were being discussed, a thing that had direct consequences to me and the specific group i were in, i'm sure that i would feel negatively about those outside of the group acting as though they were directly affected by those consequences and voicing their opinion as though their opinion were authority. to whit, if the neighborhood i lived in was discussing whether or not to have a landfill built within it, my neighboars and i would be Directly and Immediately affected by the consequences of a landfill being built. The Sweet and Sickening smell of garbage is an odor that does not leave my mind, having been a garbage man. To have that odor permeate my daily life would make it hard to live. To have someone from the next county say "the need for me to have a place to put my trash far away from me so i do not have to smell it outweighs the need for you to be happy and not smell the smell of garbage that makes you irrationaly sad" would make me want to hit someone with a hammer.
However, it would be naive and short-sighted of me to say that while i and my neighbors were directly affected by the discussion (or "debate" if you would) that noone outside of our neighborhood were affected by any consequence of said discussion. those people not in our neighborhood still need a place to put their trash.
However, those outside the neighborhood must keep in mind that the consequences that they must deal with are NOT EQUAL TO the consequences that my neighbors and i must deal with.
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I got a family March 9 1968. I've occasionally been shitty to them over the years but for the most part, I am pretty sure I'm better off then I would have been.
indeed.
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But the euphamism here "right to choose" doesn't state what it is choosing. It conveniently leaves that part out, since it would be distasteful to mention things like this:
you are concerned with what is left OFF the end of that statement, "right to choose", but do not seem to be overly concerned with what is left off the BEGINNING of that statement.
It's only recently that killing a child of the wrong gender or due to inconvenience has even been an issue. But is the practise any less barbaric because it's how things "used to be"?
It's also only recently that Women were acknowledged by our nation as having the right to vote.
and it was recently acknowledged that Women were productive in factory work in times of National Security (wwII).
and it is VERY RECENT that women, on average, expect to earn LESS than men, on average, for the same work.
i like to counter my own vagueness in regards to generalizations by offering anecdotes from my reality:
for a long time i worked at a small (very) ISP (amongst other things). The techs employed there would spend a great deal of time on the telephone with a great number of different people.
It happened more often than i would ever have (previous to working there) imagined, that some of the techs who were ladies would furiously ask me to take over the call she was on. Take over the call, because the call could not be resolved. why could the call not be resolved? because the customer requested to speak to a MAN in regards to their problems, because a WOMAN was unable to help them.
each case of this, i noticed that the WOMAN'S troubleshooting and determination of issue was CORRECT and VALID and the recommendation for resolution they had offered was CORRECT and VALID.
The world is a far better place than it WAS, but it is far from Perfect.
"A woman's" "right to choose".
I believe, Jough, that if your prepend "right to choose" as such, then things like:
Phrases like "The Right to Choose" always leave off the ever-descriptive "... to kill one's own child" at the end of it.
might make more sense to you.
Because, you are correct (coming from your WorldView), that when applied to Abortion, there is a phrase being left off.
But you seem unaware or unable/unwilling to discuss that "The Right To Choose" is about more than just Abortion, and is "The Woman's Right To Choose", a phrase that _is_, as you posit, PURPOSEFULLY left unfinished, because it applies to everything in a woman's life.
Sadly, abortion has "usurped" the phrase because "Why won't you just fuck*ng treat me fairly in our society" just doesn't have the ring to it that "A Woman's right To Choose" does.
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Topic: (Not to encourage this but) here's the abortion thread (Read 14480 times)