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Yes, he didn't eat the grubs.  He's gone.

65535 (100%)

Nah, he's stupid yet harmless.

16 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 21, 2003, 08:44:40 pm

[jough]

Far be it for me to ban anyone, but messages like this seem to be antithetical to community discussion:

Your opinion being different (i.e. negative) is not what makes you an asshole. The fact that you choose to express it at all, however, does make you a dickfuck. If you feel that you have the right to express your useless, negative opinion of someone's work out loud instead of keeping it to yourself, then that makes my right to express my own negative opinion of your sorry-ass personality equally valid.

So should we vote Ferocious J off the island, Survivor-style?

I think turning the message board into a reality show is the best way to handle things.  That, or Thunderdome.

[AugustWest]

I vote no, a little conflict spices things up.  But thanks for the validation.

[ferocious j]

Face it; you need someone to keep the whiners and morons in check.  NOTE that not all of you are whiners, nor morons, and even the people who act like whiners and morons do not do so 100% of the time ... but still.  It has happened.  We've all seen it.

[jough]

Eh, the board was getting stale.  FJ was being a dick.  It seemed the opportunity to try some Survivor-esque game.

Please everyone vote.  It's anonymous if you don't post.

I guess I'll put forth the position now that this vote will decide nothing, and that no one will be banned.

But if you think FJ *should* be banned then vote.  What the hell.

[AlohaDawg]

Although I am a big believer in community standards, I also think that people have a right to their opinion. However, there are ways to express your opinion that are not inherently attacking of someone else (not someone else's OPINION, but someone else).

I don't believe in banning someone who can't behave, just moderating to the extent that the behavior is self-policed or mitigated externally.

That said, I still think that the whole thing should be put in perspective: it's a web board. Most people do not not other people. Taking their posts personally is just not a good idea; getting into flame battles is a waste of energy. Just move on.

[ferocious j]

Seriously FJ, what is your whiner/moron guidelines.  I think I see a trend but I'm curious about what makes you decide it's puppy beating time.

Asherdan asks a good question.

I have discovered that I have very little patience for people who seem to feel the need to express opinions that are unconstructively negative.  I'm probably not alone in this.  That's the first thing that comes to mind.  I'm not against having an opinion.  You can have an opinion.  This is OK.  It's what you do with that opinion that makes you useful or just an ass-monkey.  Yeah, OK, you didn't like it.  Why the fuck tell us?  Unless you have a point, i.e. "In this strip, Philippe is entirely out of character," or "It would be nice to see more of Lie Bot."  To simply say "Man, that sucked!" says nothing.

No, wait, it says one thing: YOU ARE A DIPSHIT.

If Onstad puts out something that you think is horrible,

(a) No one cares what you think.
(b) Chances are if it's really that bad, then we probably all think it is, and hence no one needs to say anything.

Something else that I think is kind of useless is bitching about Onstad's adherence to schedule, or lack thereof.  Especially now that he's only beholden to a three-strip week.  "Oh wah wah, there's no strip today, where's my strip, someone hold me, I wet myself."  There's so little point to this sort of thing it's almost embarrassing.

The point could be made that since he's only doing three a week, it should be easier for him to stick to a schedule.  This is probably valid.  And I will accept the possibility that there's a non-whiny way to point this out.  But possibly aside from rstevens -- who is an actual web cartoonist and therefore has a leg to stand on -- no one has actually accomplished this yet.

I'm all for talking about Achewood; why else would I register here?  But there's a difference between dialogue and unremittant mendacity.

Man, that's probably my longest post EVER.

[AugustWest]

Perhaps we should all just e-mail you our posts and have you approve them so they do not offend your delicate sensibilities.

If I want to whine, I'll whine.  That's why I participate in a community of people who all discuss the same web comic -- to share my opinions and feelings about said web comic -- including my whiny opinions.

Also, why is it wrong for me to whine about something on topic, but OK for you to whine about my posts?  I'll also point out again how ironic it is for the person flinging all the insults to disdain negativity in others.

[Nabubrush]

I thought it was pretty funny how FeroJ goes back to Dumbrella and talks about trying to straighten us out here at the "other" board.

[Choop]

I can see from whence FJ comes. I possessed very much the same attitude toward the end of the achewood@dumbrella days, harping on the least harmful "whiner" for even suggesting that they had an ounce of input toward the O's creative process.

This is slightly different, however, in that FJ is harping on the slightest complaint by a member of a forum supposedly unread by the O.

Stil and all, FJ seemed on dumbrella to be a duck-slick user, able to let something near to a personal insult to slide off his back like mist in July. It is interesting, as you point out, Asherdan, to see FJ get so dictatorial in need and form.

J, what you may need to realize-slash-understand is that now that we are free from the tyranny of the O, we are free to post whatever the hell we want without fear of retrubution by THE_MOD in the forms of locking and deletion.

What the rest of us may need to realize-slash-understand is that criticism, deserved or not, is still held in disregard by those who adore the cartoon strip and its affilliated texts as though they were life partners.

We all need to make concessions here, people. It's what "community" is about.


And don't go spouting off about how I'm a Marxist or pinko. Capitalism is based on concession as well.

edited for size tag: i'm not yet used to the size tag specifying pixels. on my other boards it's translated to <font size> or relative to font-size:medium;

[pmcd9]

First, Ferocious J may be a little vociferous in his posting, but that isn't any cause to kick him out really.  I'm sure i'll have my turn at being the board dick. (what?, I already am?)  Anyway, I just wanted to point out that I think It's pretty funny that he's clamouring for people to keep their opinions to themselves while he, himself is the runaway leader in being outspoken.

The only thing I can take issue with is this idea that only a peer is qualified to criticize.  That is so weak.  I don't write a cartoon, but I know what funny is and I know what entertainments.  To suggest that RStevens is the only person on this board qualified to offer critique and criticism is a really ignorant thought.

~Paul

[jough]

Ferocious J is a child, people.  When he's bad, you need to send him to his room with no video games or supper.

And when he takes a big ol' dump on the new carpet (i.e. posts his ig'nant replies) you have to rub his nose in it, whack him on the behind, and shout "Bad Ferocious J, BAD."

[V-Adore]

I don't believe there's any bannable offense here, on any side.

That said... why precisely do we need to attach reasoning and critique to every opinion for us to not be assholes (or whatever) for expressing it? After all, as has been repeated over and over and over, Onstad doesn't read this board. It's officially unofficial. Unlike Dumbrella, nothing we post here can or should be interpreted as feedback to the 'stad. Why does it matter, then, that our opinions be "constructive?" The only reason I can think is because long, constructive reasons facilitate debate and discussion, but "your cryptic, simple opinion on the question of 'The Whipping Zoo' gives me no room to discuss" is not generally grounds for calling other people asshats. Heck, by those standards, un-elaborated opinions on either side should be as offensive, since "this strip RULES ALL RIGHTEOUS" is at least as uninteresting to discuss as "this strip SUX TEH COQ." If anything, "You're an asshole for saying that Achewood SUX TEH COQ" is even less interesting.

[jough]

You tell 'em, V-Adore.  Now work the body, work the body, and look out for that left, it's a doozy.

[jay-ell]

In spite of the fact that this topic is totally inappropriate, it's the best discussion we've had here so far, so I feel like I have to let it stand.  

Dammit.

[Schabe]

Look.  Here is the thing.

I think I feel the same way that J does, so since this has come down to a few people harping on him, I'll take his back on this one.

Here's the thing: the Achewood forum a la Dumbrella sucked.  SUCKED.  It had its moments when people were more interested in talking about food and how awesome they thought Teodor's dance was and whatnot, but it was like 50% suck for a long time.  Why did I keep reading it?  Because I love Achewood, and just happened to hang out at Dumbrella all the fuck*ng time already.  plus, for the 50% of suck, that left 50% of cool, which is a fair balance, and who has high expectations of the Internet anyway?

But in the last few months of its miserable life, the Achewood forum there went from 50% suck to an increasingly alarming 70%, then 85%, and finally died with about a 3% reason for the board ever having existed at all.  Now, you can blame Onstad for that and the way he ran his board if you'd like.  It's easy, and he made himself the tyranical crank, and well, there might be something to it.  There is also every reason to suspect that the community of readers/posters on that board were ALSO to blame (myself included, so nyah).  

And here we are, free of the Onstad hate, and what happens?  The exact same horrible attitude gets carried over to a new place.  Maybe you can all claim to be tainted by Onstad and his crank-master ways, but this is the most unsatisfied, miserable, and often petulant "fan" community I've ever seen.  Why did I join?  Because it's kind of funny, in a Farrely Brothers movie kind of way.  Plus, sometimes people are just willing to talk about the kind of stuff that made the old board cool sometimes.

All this childish petulance here just makes me sad, and a little angry.  If you're so pissed at Onstad ruling with an iron fist (as if his being a MOD -- oooh, scary! -- had anything to do with it), then now that you've got your freedom, why are you wasting it?  You don't see prisoners who've escaped from the pen standing outside the chain link fence bitching about how the guards treated them, do you? No, they run to a dessert island, get drunk or high or laid, or whatever they want, because they are FREE.

To be fair, Onstad shook up the Achewood expereince at the same time he dsiaplaced his little community of camp followers.  It's to be expected that grumblings and gripes would follow.  But for shit's sake people, J is right: there is a huge difference between constructuve criticism and bitching and moaning.  Fer realz.

Me, I'll point it out all I want until you ban me.  Which would be funny too, so feel free.