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[Doc]

I'm sure some of you guys read Websnark or may indeed be a fan of the site itself, but to all who are not:
Squidi is closing up shop.

It's just that I never realised Pat made a webcomic.

Seriously this guy sounds like he's had the short end of the stick a few times, and I've never read any of his stuff before today (I found it somewhat less than inspiring for the comic that "single handedly fought for the legitimacy of the pixel art genre it defined" but you know, whatever) but well damn. This fellow needs to take a great big bite of reefer, or something.

[St_Zartan]

I read and enjoy Penny Arcade, and Tycho's news posts are great reads, but Jesus Christ, those die-hard Penny Arcade fans are complete fuckin' dipshits, I swear. I feel bad for this dude (whom I'd never heard of until just now); PA readers just can't seem to stop patting themselves on the back for all the Interweb Influence they wield, and what happened here seems like one more case of HEY LET'S STEAMROLL THIS GUY FOR PA!!!1 BECAUSE WE CAN~

(People who invest way too much of themselves, emotionally, into a fandom - especially on the goddamned Internet - really ought to be given a wide berth, if not simply locked in a habitat where they can harmlessly indulge themselves and each other forever and ever without getting tangled up in the feet of, you know, balanced people.)

Having said that, what I've skimmed of his Groundbreaking Pixel Comic doesn't really impress me - it seems like that self-consciously zany humor that the Web is more or less choked with. And all this hand-flapping and well-I-nevering and taking oneself Oh So Seriously does nothing but paint a target on your chest.

[V-Adore]

I am technically at work and thus can't really be bothered to look it up, so: does anyone know what precisely happened between this guy and PA? I sense lawsuit involvement.

Anyway, Zartan, roundly agreed. I enjoy PA, and I think Tycho and Gabe are pretty overall competent (and deserve webcomic success as much as anybody), but honest to God most PA fans are stupid. Honest to Christ.

[St_Zartan]

I am technically at work and thus can't really be bothered to look it up, so: does anyone know what precisely happened between this guy and PA?

Here you go - I had to look it up, myself, and then I was sort of "That's it? ... Huh." If you want to know where ridiculous, petty disputes can be inflated beyond all reasonable expectation, well, that place is the Internet.

Don't miss the discussion page for that article. That shit goes on and on.

[V-Adore]

I am technically at work and thus can't really be bothered to look it up, so: does anyone know what precisely happened between this guy and PA?

Here you go - I had to look it up, myself, and then I was sort of "That's it? ... Huh." If you want to know where ridiculous, petty disputes can be inflated beyond all reasonable expectation, well, that place is the Internet.

Don't miss the discussion page for that article. That shit goes on and on.

Wait, this guy flipped his shit because someone was using 32x32 pixels of his art for a PA forum icon? Holy shit, folks, we are in fact in the presence of PAT REYNOLDS.

[CortJstr]

Lore[/url]"]I have no objective proof of this, but I get the feeling we've reached a watershed in webcomics. Judging from various rumblings, postings, counter-postings, and other online byproducts of creativity, I think the current generation of webcomic artists have realized that their traffic and income is leveling off. In other words, they've peaked. And I think in response they're starting to think about their legacy, how their comic will be remembered fifty or a hundred years from now.

Unfortunately, some of them -- I'm not naming names here -- seem to feel that preserving their legacy means denigrating, insulting, or even wiping out comics that have even the vaguest resemblance to theirs. If a comic has a similar art style, a similar premise, or even similar props, then there is great huffing and puffing and resentment. In justifying this pettiness, they invoke their legacy. They don't want their work to be buried and forgotten in a sea of imitators.

There's a lot to be said about the issue, but I want to send one message out to those facing it. Those imitators? They are your legacy. A bunch of people are going to imitate you. Some of them will pay respect, others will look away and say "Resemblance? I don't see any resemblance." Some will make crap, and others will learn from what you've done, expand on it, and even improve on it. And the generation after that will see the comics they love, see where the comics they love got their inspiration, and recognize you for pioneers. And that's your legacy.

Just look at history. Look at Jack Kirby. It would be hard to come up with a comic artist who has been more widely imitated. Up until manga hit the mainstream in the US, he was the heart and soul of superhero comics in America, even after his death. The medium was, and in many ways still is, glutted, absolutely stuffed with people influenced by him, in some cases three or four times removed, but still traceable back to the visual vocabulary he created. Whether this has been good for comics is debatable, but it's been great for Kirby's legacy.

Or, to poke our heads outside comics for a moment, look at rock and roll. If Chuck Berry and Little Richard had cut their songs in the current legal climate, they might have been able to sue rock and roll out of existence. Riffs, screams, moves, style, themes, and in some cases their entire act was lifted indelicately from them. It must have been difficult to see their style appropriated, and in many cases diffused, but after all is said and done if nobody had dared build on their style they wouldn't be known as rock and roll pioneers, they'd be known as momentarily popular musicians in an obscure offshoot of boogie-woogie.

I can understand the frustration, the desire to make sure that if nobody but you gets profit and popularity from a style and attitude you came up with. I can see how you'd want to keep doing what you're doing for the next few decades, without seeing young upstarts capturing the hip cred you once had, and especially without them doing it by using some of the same techniques you developed. But that's not how the world works, and maybe grumbling about it won't hurt your legacy, but it certainly won't help.

[jough]

(People who invest way too much of themselves, emotionally, into a fandom - especially on the goddamned Internet - really ought to be given a wide berth, if not simply locked in a habitat where they can harmlessly indulge themselves and each other forever and ever without getting tangled up in the feet of, you know, balanced people.)

St_Zartan
Pat


Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 917
Location: Arsenal Gear - Sigmoid Colon

[Doc]

Yeah but even a rabid achewood fan is unlikely to spring to Onstad's defense over... well just about anything. I've always felt we're kind of an abusive fan base.
Then again I just got done reading the thread where folks were planning the "disappearance" of of Linnea's stalker fellow (with Jailarious results) so I guess all fandoms are different like that.

[V-Adore]

Yeah but even a rabid achewood fan is unlikely to spring to Onstad's defense over... well just about anything. I've always felt we're kind of an abusive fan base.

Well, with all due respect, I'd argue that this is largely a product of the fact that Onstad has always been somewhere between joshing-hostile and actually-hostile with his fans. There's the original board blowup, of course, and the fact that a lot of his interactions on this board have had the tone of "you people are losers, but you'd better buy merch" unnerves people. I personally am not inclined to give great respect to any creator who accuses me of wanting to give him Mega Hugs, even if I enjoy his creation a great deal.

[jough]

V, you know you want to give Onstad sloppy kisses, plus babies.

But yeah, 'stad is pretty much bringing the hostility onto himself by being a dick to readers so loyal that they'll join a discussion board to fuck*ng discuss his wares.

[St_Zartan]

I heard Achewood T-shirts give off some kind of poison gas

[AugustWest]

Fuck 'im.  He's one of us, whether he'll admit it or not.  He has his (prodigious) gifts and his foibles.  I'll treat him with all the dignity and disrespect that I'd treat any of the rest of you who're reading this.  Onstad has a great and beautiful talent which I respect, but he is but a man.  We have a community here, and he is a member of it (granted an essential, treasured and highly prickly member, but a neighbor just the same) whether he wants to be or not.

I'd kick Vonnegut in the balls too, if he spit on me first.

Why the fuck are we doing this again?  Are we that bored?  Dang, somebody talk about hot wheels or guadalcanal diary already f'godsake.

[AlohaDawg]

Fuck 'im.  He's one of us, whether he'll admit it or not.  He has his (prodigious) gifts and his foibles.  I'll treat him with all the dignity and disrespect that I'd treat any of the rest of you who're reading this.  Onstad has a great and beautiful talent which I respect, but he is but a man.  We have a community here, and he is a member of it (granted an essential, treasured and highly prickly member, but a neighbor just the same) whether he wants to be or not.

I'd kick Vonnegut in the balls too, if he spit on me first.

Why the fuck are we doing this again?  Are we that bored?  Dang, somebody talk about hot wheels or guadalcanal diary already f'godsake.

What he's saying is Onstad Ain't Jeebus and DON'T DRINK THE KOOLAID, PEOPLE.