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[mudokon]

It was fun for a while, but I'm getting kind of tired of being incredibly fat. I'm not opposed to turning to vegetarianism; food is food. Also, what are some good books on the subject?

[Ben-San]

Speaking as a non-vegetarian and a fatso who probably therefore does not have room to talk:

You can eat healthy without being a vegetarian, and you can eat unhealthy as a vegetarian. Whichever way you do it, it will require being way more careful about your diet than your presumably-unhealthy current diet.

Not super helpful, but it's something.

[V-Adore]

Yeah, copied. I'm not a vegetarian, but some of my vegetarian friends have been very clear object-lessons that you don't have to eat meat to eat poorly. If you're really in it for weight loss, I'd be careful about it, as opposed to just assuming "tofu will make me well."

[AlohaDawg]

What Ben said - plenty of non-fat meat eaters out here.

Here's my suggestion:

1) first see a doctor to make sure you aren't suffering from a condition that is making you overweight, and that a significant change in your diet and activity level won't kill you.

2) Increase your activity level and take the first step of cutting out high sugar/high fat snacks. Snack moderately and healtily.

3) Increase the amount of fiber you take in and the amount of water you drink. This not only helps take food fat out of your system, it contributes to helping you feel full.

4) when you are ready, begin monitoring your portions and making them smaller.

You can do these things in or out of a vegetarian lifestyle. I've nothing against them as long as they aren't judgmental about my meat eating.

I believe that if you increase your exercise, eat reasonable amounts of healthy food, and have a goal, you should be OK - don't lose the weight too fast, remember that it's a LIFETIME behavior you are developing, not a quick fix. You CAN eat some cake and ice cream sometimes. It's OK to eat desserts - it's just important to be conscious of your food decisions and generally make healthy choices as to both what you eat and how much of it you eat.

Going into winter and Holidays is a tough time to make this decision - join a gym or something so that you can keep your physical activity up. I suggest YMCAs to people because (a) they're cheap and (b) they aren't primary social outlets for 'gym people'. It's a little better for many people psychologically.

[pmcd9]

I've been moving toward vegetarianism.  Partly for the same reason as Mudukon, but also because i've met a number of veggies recently and they are some of the coolest people on the planet.

I have trouble with going totally veggie because when I do, I start to get terrible cravings.  And it usually results in a massive break in the diet.  I've been a meat eater my entire life and I love the taste of most meats, but it's getting easier to go without it.  8 days straight is my longest stretch without meat.  I'm about to go on a longer stretch than that.  After I eat the pollo asada that's in my fridge tomorrow night.

In a related note, I haven't mentioned this, but I have continued to lose weight very slowly, but surely.  I'm standing face to face with a major milestone.

So to get back to Mud and his problem, for me when I go totally veggie I lose weight much faster.  But it's definitely possible I think to go veggie and be totally fat.  So no matter what, you'll have to change your attitude towards food in order to lose weight.  And I hate to say it, but you'll have to drag your fat ass off the sofa as well.  Sorry.


~Paul

[V-Adore]

I've been moving toward vegetarianism.  Partly for the same reason as Mudukon, but also because i've met a number of veggies recently and they are some of the coolest people on the planet.

Eh, in my experience, being a vegetarian isn't enough to make you cool in a vacuum. Truly cool vegetarians are cool with whatever eating habits you practice, anyway; live and let live.

[pmcd9]

Notice I didn't say they were cool because they were vegetarians.  But they are cool and they are vegetarians.  There must be a relationship between the two.

~Paul

[V-Adore]

Correlation != causation, d00d.

[AugustWest]

Correlation != causation, d00d.

Notice I didn't say they were cool because they were vegetarians. But they are cool and they are vegetarians. There must be a relationship between the two.

Relationship = correlation, not causation.  Which I think Paul makes quite clear in his first sentence.

/Butting in

Also, many congrats on the continued weight loss Paul.  I'm quite jealous.

[V-Adore]

I don't know, I think of "relationship" as being somewhat more binding than "correlation," at least the way Paul's using it. "Correlation" just means that the two factors occur together, whereas Paul is attempting to derive some sort of function of their correlation as their "relationship." So... yeah, I dunno, I just don't see changing eating patterns because you know some cool people who do it to be a good idea, is all.

[AlohaDawg]

Notice I didn't say they were cool because they were vegetarians.  But they are cool and they are vegetarians.  There must be a relationship between the two.

~Paul

Are they lesbian vegetarians? That would be a relationship between the two.

SNARK!

Seriously, Paul I think has a good attitude - he's tried going meatless for longer stretches at a time ao he can probably handle it. Good going on the continued weight loss too - living example of 'dieting' vs. real lifestyle behavior changes -

The thing we didn't mention to Mud was that if you have a support system of friends and family who love you and want you to lose the weight for the right reasons, that goes a real long way toward making your goal a reality.

[AugustWest]

Mosquitoes are more likely to be found after rainy weather.

Mud is more likely to be found after rainy weather.

Is there a direct relationship?  Yes, they are both more likely after rainy weather.  That equals correlation.  Is there causation one direction or the other?  Well, up until 250 years ago we would have said yes and strained credulity to find it.  Damn mosquitoes spontaneously generating from that nasty swamp mud!

Yet an abundance of mosquitoes and muddy ground are related in that they both have a common causation:  an abundance of moisture in the area.

My point?  I don't know.  It's late and I'm drunk.  Perhaps it's this:

Correlation, while it doesn't logically demand causation does tend to indicate a shared condition precedent.  While this is far from a scientifically demonstratred causal connection, it does indicate that there is a sufficient shared nexus between cause and effect to merit further investigation.

In other words, just because we don't have sufficient knowledge to connect point A to point B when we know there is a definite correlation doesn't mean we should decide there is no causative relationship.  Shouldn't we demand an equal level of proof to deny the lack causation between A and B as we require to tie A to B?

Holy frikkin crap, I'm talking like a philosophy professor.  Somebody club me on the skull and drag me to the VFW Hall!

[V-Adore]

Oh, man, everyone loves spontaneous generation. Science was so much better when we believed blatantly stupid things about flies being automagically generated in rotting meat and such.

Anyway, I guess my thing is that saying "I've been thinking of becoming vegetarian because I know a bunch of cool ones" implies that you believe in some sort of causative relationship, even if you say you don't. That said: whatever lifestyle choices Paul chooses to make are cool with me, and I think Paul is a cool enough guy already. So hey, live and let live.

[Carlos del Vaca]

This here meat-eater has shed 35 pounds in two months.  (My ##### keep threatening to fall off.)

Meat is fine.  It's all about the portion control.

[Doc]

One of the coolest people I know is my relapsed vegetarian zooologist cousin.

If you like meat though I don't see a reason to cut it out entirely, why not just have it less often? Although I guess sometimes it can be easier to just cut out something entirely rather than have it ocassionally.

That said this is coming from chubby dude with only a smattering of self control.

Major Props to both of you guys though, you're motivating me to put my walking half an hour to uni instead of 10 minute bus trip plan into effect. You'll note that my plans are not particularly complex.