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[Choop]

Man. Vegetarianism to logical fallacies in 7 posts. Wow. Where else on the internet could you find that.

[AugustWest]

Might as well Godwinize it while we're at it.

Choop, you are worse than Hitler


at speaking German.

[sjlimmer]

Major Props to both of you guys though, you're motivating me to put my walking half an hour to uni instead of 10 minute bus trip plan into effect. You'll note that my plans are not particularly complex.

This is the same basic plan that helped me loose ~40 lbs in grad school.  Unfortunately, both grad school and those shed pounds are in the past.  Good luck, man.

[arkabee]

Oh, man, everyone loves spontaneous generation. Science was so much better when we believed blatantly stupid things about flies being automagically generated in rotting meat and such.

you have an incorrect definition of "automagically" if you think flies are not automagically generated in rotting meat.

the entirety of the existance of the concept of "automagic" is "black box" such that A goes into "black box" and B comes out, regardless of the level of knowledge of the events or sequences within the "black box".

which is part of the scientific mindset, empirically gathering data in order to prove or disprove a hypothesis.  an incorrect hypothesis is neither stupid nor intelligent, it is simply incorrect.  a hypothesis that can be neither proved nor disproved is stupid, in relation to it being a hypothesis for the purpose of furthering scientific knowledge.

stupidity != ignorance, and vice versa.

ignorance would be not understanding the automagical process of flies spawning from rotted meat, stupidity would be leaving the meat sitting there regardless.

Anyway, I guess my thing is that saying "I've been thinking of becoming vegetarian because I know a bunch of cool ones" implies that you believe in some sort of causative relationship, even if you say you don't.

which implies that you wanted to read into his statements things he did not say, and disregard clarifications to statements he did make, such as the word "also", even if you say you don't.

[AugustWest]

Clearly V, you are also worse than Hitler

At looking sporty in leiderhosen.

[AlohaDawg]

Oh, man, everyone loves spontaneous generation. Science was so much better when we believed blatantly stupid things about flies being automagically generated in rotting meat and such.

Anyway, I guess my thing is that saying "I've been thinking of becoming vegetarian because I know a bunch of cool ones" implies that you believe in some sort of causative relationship, even if you say you don't. That said: whatever lifestyle choices Paul chooses to make are cool with me, and I think Paul is a cool enough guy already. So hey, live and let live.

I'm confused. Are we working from the assumption that Paul feels he would be cool if he became a vegetarian? Or is the fact that he's already cool mean he's a latent vegetarian embracing his true self if he makes that choice?

I think he's cool either way. Automagically so, probably, for I doubt extensive interviewing and/or dissection would reveal the genesis of his coolness.

[V-Adore]

Clearly V, you are also worse than Hitler

At looking sporty in leiderhosen.

Well, I would hope so!

I miss the days when I was history's worst criminal.

[andalucia]

Seriously, dude, being vegetarian ain't even tricky anymore, especially if you live in a major-metropolitan-area.  I've been vegetarian for... nine or ten years, vegan for about five of those, at the beginning of which time there sure wasn't much tofu to be had in mainstream grocery stores, let alone a plethora of (imho, totally freaky) meat simulacra.  Take it as an opportunity to learn about awesome foods from other places that are less meat-oriented.

As for losing weight, what other people said about being healthy regardless of whether or not you eat meat certainly makes sense.  However, being vegetarian, if done in a remotely sensible way, forces you to pay a lot more attention to what you eat in general, since you have to make sure you're getting all your amino acids and vitamins and minerals and other nice things, and you'll sure feel it it you do it wrong.

[AlohaDawg]

...As for losing weight, what other people said about being healthy regardless of whether or not you eat meat certainly makes sense.  However, being vegetarian, if done in a remotely sensible way, forces you to pay a lot more attention to what you eat in general, since you have to make sure you're getting all your amino acids and vitamins and minerals and other nice things, and you'll sure feel it it you do it wrong.

That's GOLD advice right there. That last bit is also one of my primary arguments when people advance the proposition to me that meat eating is not the natural state of human beings. That and our pointy little teeth.

Her first point was awesome too:
There are quite a few vegetarian cultures out there with really outstanding cuisines. Make your vegetarianism decision into an odyssey of eating and preparing new things. That would make it fun as well. I wish I lived somewhere with more diverse restaurant fare. I miss Chicago for that.

[V-Adore]

Ooh, that's a good point. Vegetarianism is a good way to have some exciting new food experiences; heck, if you wanted to, you could always experiment with trying some vegetarian stuff you wouldn't eat normally, to see how you feel about it. After all, it's not like you have to sign a contract before attempting meat-free cooking for a while. Give it a try and see if you find it enjoyable and healthful.

[side_show]

As a former vegetarian - I can really tell you I've seen both sides of the fence.  

I had no problem eating in a deeply unhealthy way on both meat eating and non-meat eating diets when I wanted to.  I think part of the reason many people see a health boost when they become vegetarians is because they are eating counciously - they are taking the time to actually think about what they are putting in their bodies.  

Because soy products neutralize the effect of the thyroid medication I need to take to stay alive, and because no doctor bothered to tell me this even though I repeatedly made them aware of the fact I was a vegetarian, I became severly ill over the three years I lived as a vegetarian, to the point where I was almost unable to function and thought I was dying, so I'm a very special case.  When I finally found out the problem from a book on thyroid health, I looked at what I could eat as a vegetarian if I eleminated all soy products, and I decided it would just be too much of a struggle to stay vegetarian, so I went back to meat.  

I've continued to be a concious eater, and I'm always aware of the healthy balance.  Now that I've eleminated soy from my diet I'm healthier than I've been in many years, and at this point I'm beginning to think I'm close to being recovered from the three years of steady and scary decline.  I'd encourage anyone without my special health issues to try a vegetarian diet, but I really think that just totally upping your fruit/veggie consumption is the best idea, whether meat is part of the mix or not.  Also upping your giraffe intake is very good - not a vegetarian thing, but just so damn good for you!  If you just make it the golden rule that you must consume at least 5 servings of fruit and veggies a day you are doing your body a favor.

[pmcd9]

Thank you Ark for pointing out that the example of my cool veggie friends was used mainly as an aside and not the main thurst of my statements.  (I've been thinking about this all day to be sadly honest).

Also, for me eating vegetarian in restaurants is a good way to GAIN weight because there's this little Indian buffet that is so fuck*ng good I always eat way more than is necessary.  But it's so good I can't help myself.

~Paul

[Choop]

Smells: I'm sure you know this, but stay away from Kellogg's. Some of their cereal boxes state that their corn products may have been in contact with soy products; it's doubtful that ALL of them do. And almost ALL of them contain corn product of some sort.

[slink]

I think if I were to ever be vegetarian, I would continue to avoid soy and fake meats, mainly because I can't stand them. I can quite happily eat vegetarian meals, but at the end of the day, I don't think I could do it full time. Giving up Parma ham, duck and lamb would be hardest.
I have gone through phases where I either lived with vegetarians who couldn't cook or where I had little money and thus didn't eat much meat, but they never swayed me to not eat it again. I guess it's part of the blessing of having an insane metabolism, although I can't help but wonder at what age that's going to give out.

[Doc]

I totally don't get the fake meat products. Meat substitutes of course, you need your amino acids and such like, but if I ever went vego I couldn't imagine why I'd want to eat a tofu-dog style product. Mainly because my experience with tofu based meat fakes indicates that they are both inferior to the flesh they are apeing and inferior to other ways to serve tofu (or whatever, I only know from tofu but I'm guessing it would be similar across the board on the basis that a meal designed around eating a certain thing will be tastier than a meal designed to pretend a thing is a different thing).

Anyways after all that I think I could quite happily just eat tonnes of fruit, fruit is tasty and way more convenient than both meat or vegies. You don't even have to wrap most fruit when you are travelling, it comes pre wrapped thanks to Nature.