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Author Topic: Civ IV  (Read 6224 times)

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CortJstr

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Civ IV
« on: December 08, 2005, 05:10:18 pm »

Is anybody else playing this? It's completely screwed up all the strategies I learned in I and III. If the Colossus expires with the advent of Astronomy then how the hell am I supposed to make my Super Science City? Hell, Copernicus's Observatory appears to be missing entirely.
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2005, 05:21:54 pm »

My girlfriend plays it. For 10 hour stretches. On my computer.

I. can. only. take. so. much. Leonard. Nimoy. so. help. me. God.
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CortJstr

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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2005, 05:29:48 pm »

You know you can turn him off, right?
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Thee

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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2005, 06:39:52 pm »

What would be the point then?

Speaking of Sid, I have a certain fondness for Pirates.  I was the fanciest lad in the New World, you should have seen my hip grooves and jams to seduce the ladies.  True.
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AugustWest

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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2005, 07:25:11 pm »

Personally Alpha Centauri is my favorite of these games.

I started on Civ II, and it's still a favorite.  Working on Civ III now.  As far as I can tell, 3 incorporated some of the best features of SMAC and punched up the graphics.  One of my favorite things about SMAC is the weapons workshop.  You aren't limited to preset weapons -- if you want to make a drop colony pod on a tank chassis with neutronium armor, you can do it.  The national boundaries also shows up first in SMAC.

What frustrates me about all these games is how the AI flat out cheats.  The higher the level you play, the more the damn game cheats.

So, what are the differences between 3 and 4.  Are there gameplay differences or are they primarily graphic improvements.  Because I don't really give a shit about better graphics, especially in a game like Civ.
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2005, 07:27:33 pm »

I loved Civ III but the main reason I'm not playing Civ IV is because I don't have the friggin 10 hours in a row it probably takes to play one full game!
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CortJstr

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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 08:49:03 pm »

Quote from: "AugustWest"
So, what are the differences between 3 and 4.  Are there gameplay differences or are they primarily graphic improvements.  Because I don't really give a shit about better graphics, especially in a game like Civ.

They pretty much admitted that Civ 2 was the same as 1 but with better graphics. But 4 has some fairly important changes over 3 and some minor ones.
    [*]No pollution!
    [*]Unhappy cities don't revolt, they just slow production.
    [*]Micromanaging now backfires (ie, turning research waaay down on the last turn before a discovery to avoid overflow).
    [*]Some civs have 2 leaders with different traits. France has Louis XIV (Creative and Organized; favors Hereditary Rule) and Napoleon (Aggressive & Industrious; favors Representation)
    [*]Instead of one gov't option there are several smaller Civics. Last night I was a Representative, Emacipated, Socialist State with Freedom of Speech and Religion
    [*]Religions are included. Each has prophets, temples, and missionaries which can add to your cash or screw life up if they oppose your State Religion.
    [*]Other leaders will react to your Civics and State Religion and will pressure you to change to theirs.
    [*]Barbarians also research and advance as time passes (they can also be turned off)
    [*]Wild animals will attack outside cultural borders
    [*]Borders are totally impassable without declaring war or Open Borders treaty
    [*]Your units can occupy the same space as others civs if you aren't at war. You can even walk right through one of their cities w/ Open Borders
    [*]Infinite City Sprawl (ICS) aka Settler Factories no longer work. They totally reworked how corruption is handled and it's now an increase in maintenance costs instead of a production loss.
    [*]The Stack of Doom (SOD) is less valuable due to barrage units.
    [*]Common sense unit abilities are factored in (Pikemen get a bonus against mounted units, a Warrior won't kill a healthy Mech. Infantry)
    [*]Units get RPG-style EXP promotions allowing further specialization
    [*]The tech tree no longer has "ages." Some techs have OR prerequesites while others have ANDs.
    [*]You can zoom w/ the wheel and use the Civ 1 top down view or the Civ 3 angled view.
    [/list]
    There's more, obviously, but those are some of the major points.

    Also, I managed to get through a Standard game on Chieftan last night in 2:45. Mainly just to get a look at the new stuff.
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    AugustWest

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    « Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 09:14:05 pm »

    Those are significant and fascinating differences.  Maybe in two years when the price drops I'll pick up a copy.
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    CortJstr

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    « Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 09:47:10 pm »

    Quote from: "AugustWest"
    Those are significant and fascinating differences.  Maybe in two years when the price drops I'll pick up a copy.

    W/ Civ 3 I waited for the Game of the Year Edition. I only got 4 so quickly because it was a Christmas present. Otherwise I would've waited for it to come down from $40 myself.
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    robot_roll_call

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    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2005, 06:53:26 am »

    Quote from: "CortJstr"
    You know you can turn him off, right?


    But then I will never hear him say "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

    so you can see the conflict.
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    Lister

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    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2005, 10:00:14 am »

    Personal Spocklopedia favorite: Railroads.  I can't tell if he's really trying to inflect or really trying not to inflect.

    This game has owned my soul for the past month or so.  I actually enjoy it more than CivII, which is damned near the highest praise any game will ever get from me.  I'm actually playing it right now on the other computer.

    In a sense, it's like a better version of Civ3 or Call to Power: it's clear that the goals were to take the base of CivII and make it more fun, but it succeeds in ways that neither of those did.  It's more fun, as deep or deeper, but never tedious.

    Take Resources as an example.  Elephants, copper, corn, whales, oil - they're all there, all distributed on the map with some geographical sense (Fur only occurs in arctic areas, rice nearer the equator, bananas in jungles, etc), but there's actual meaning to them past the bonus you'd get if you put a city next to it.  When you develop the Resource and connect it to the trade network, every city gets the utility of it, even if it isn't actually in the "work" area of a city (it must be in your borders, though).  Each new food item (Corn, rice, sheep, pigs, cows, etc) increases health in your cities.  Each new luxury (gems, gold, fur, ivory) increases happiness.  Industrial resources (copper, iron, stone, uranium) determine what you can build, or give bonuses to building certain Wonders.  The game's set up so that you'll have access to a limited variety of resources, so trading them is actually useful now.  Later on in the game you can even trade Hit Singles for resources (if you've built Rock 'n' Roll).

    A new addition is Great People - each turn, every city adds points to a Great Person "pool," and when that pool fills up a Great Person is born.  It can be a Prophet, Engineer, Scientist, Merchant, or Entertainer.  You can choose to have them join a city as a citizen, which will give a permanent bonus to some combination of production, science, commerce, or culture.  Alternately, they can be "used up" to give one-time bonuses.  They can research a new technology (which tech depends on their type), or complete a Great Work in a city (also depends on type).  Two Great People of any type can trigger a Golden Age.  Which type of person you get depends on what type of points go into that city's pool, which in turn depends on what Wonders are there and what type of Specialists you have.  If you don't pay attention they're a nice bonus, but if you really work the system (build all wonders that create Merchants in one city, etc) you get a big advantage.

    Borders depend on the Culture output of your cities not just their proximity, and the really cool part is that if your culture is more influential on another nation's border city than their own culture, it can "flip" to your side.  Have a Great Artist create a great work in a border town and watch your influence spread!

    There are a thousand subtle differences (Settlers can't join cities to boost population!  Decomissioning a unit in a city doesn't give new production!) but the game still feels right.  You just have to abandon the old strategies a bit and work from first principles.

    okayIshouldstoptypingnowbecauseIcouldbe playingkkbye
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    CortJstr

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    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2005, 04:47:12 pm »

    In 3 I'd never trade resources. Because I'd be like, "screw you, Hannibal. I want your people to be unhappy so no Wines for you." In fact I'd turn on Culture Flipping and Elimination Mode and put a bunch of my cities all up in the other civ's grill and just wait for their city to flip so I could watch their entire empire dissolve before my eyes.

    I'm just dumbfounded on what I need now. In 1 and 3 you needed the Colossus and C.'s Observatory in the same city. And in 1 it was basically a flat-out race to get Railroads before 1AD and everything else was gravy. Now that's all out the window.

    I also don't like the new editor. 3's was moderately usable and didn't require launching the whole game or getting into XML. 4's requires the cheat code (chipotle) to do much.
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    theinevitable

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    Re: Civ IV
    « Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 10:50:40 pm »

    so. it is still 40 bucks. And I really want it. A lot. A guy on my hall bought it, and I mean... it looks amazing. civilization II was the first game I really became obsessed with.

    all the guys on my hall play AOEIII and stuff against each other. This one girl brought her n64 and SNES, so we've been playing through the old Mario games and donkey kong and such.

    loverly.
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    Re: Civ IV
    « Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 10:58:40 pm »

    This one girl brought her n64 and SNES, so we've been playing through the old Mario games and donkey kong and such.

    Now that girl has Potential, I'd say.
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    CortJstr

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    Re: Civ IV
    « Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 11:04:10 pm »

    so. it is still 40 bucks. And I really want it. A lot. A guy on my hall bought it, and I mean... it looks amazing. civilization II was the first game I really became obsessed with.

    all the guys on my hall play AOEIII and stuff against each other. This one girl brought her n64 and SNES, so we've been playing through the old Mario games and donkey kong and such.

    loverly.

    The Warlords expansion came out recently. You could always wait like another year for the game+expansion bundle. Or spend the extra $29.99 and get Civ Chronicles

    I'm mainly mad that the SDK that they released is too comprehensive. Basically if you didn't major in Computer Science in the last 2 years don't even bother downloading the SDK. This sucks because your options for editing Civ 4 are Muck About in XML Files with WordPad and Muck About with Uncompiled Code You Can't Possibly Understand.
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