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Author Topic: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"  (Read 22770 times)

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yu-huang

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AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« on: January 14, 2006, 02:17:09 am »

(feel free to delete, etc)

Let's talk about drama.

Feel free to correct on me the following points (I'll resort to memory, 'cos it's just too weary to go through all the threads to get the excerpts):

I have seen the term "drama" being used here to describe the essence of the recent problems with the newbies. To be fair, no names were given as fair as I remember, but still, I am a newbie, and the more willing I am to go all tabula rasa and start all over and over with some of the members of TOUAMB, I can't give you a point which costed some effort.

When I posted about wanting to see the joint-rolling machine strip, and then posted again about just having seen it, Jough came and told me in rather rash terms that I shouldn't have done that, and why. Now, he doesn't really have to be corteous, maybe he just doesn't like me, whatever. I was in the wrong - it was postwhoring. So even though I felt I had been unnecessarily mistreated by Jough's tone, I didn't say a thing, and promptly deleted a lot of my own irrelevant posts in that thread. I could have made a fuss, like apparently some of the other newbies are doing (I don't know, haven't been following), but I know when I should shut up. This costs a bit of self-control, and I will not have my purposeful consideration of what it's best for the board (my obeying the rules of the guy who pays for the thing, namely) even at times of personal distress ignored and distorted. I'm a bore, I know, but at least I'm being honest (gotta say that the fact that you're still letting me speak is rather cool, though =P. So... I hope that things improve, and so on and such...

When I started a topic about a strip, without commentary, AlohaDawg did the same thing that Jough had done - pointed to faults in my procedures, in a really bitchy way. This time I retorted (I should have remembered that he was a mod and just let it go, but... anyway, we made amends quite agreeably. I am trying to watch my steps, that's all I'm saying.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2006, 02:22:37 am by yu-huang »
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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2006, 02:20:09 am »

Dude, you and I hashed out or problems the other day but let me give you some advice.

Stop posting in the Achewood thread about non-achewood shit for one.

Two, when someone locks a thread, there's a reason for it.  If you would let it die, be cool, and hang out then none of this shit would be necessary.

So, in conclusion, you're not really getting the vibe of this place, dig?
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yu-huang

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2006, 02:23:35 am »

Totally. I'm all for clearing things up. As I said, we did make amends quite quick, eh?
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V-Adore

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2006, 02:26:14 am »

I know when I should shut up.

No, apparently you don't. This did not need another thread. LET IT DIE.
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AugustWest

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2006, 04:39:37 am »

Have you been treated unfairly?  Maybe.  Probably.  I don't know.

I do know that I'm not going to invest the time to go back and re-read a message board drama that didn't really interest me much the first time around.

Here's what I'm suggesting: 

Everybody back the fuck off for a while.

Let's cut Yu a little slack.

Yu, try to grow a little bit thicker skin.

If we can make it work, it'd be great to have you as a member of the community.  If not, maybe you need to move along.

I don't intend to devote any more attention to this "controversy".  It's boring and unnecessarily contentious.  I'm not sure what you intend to acheive by prolonging this.  Vindication?  Attenion whoring?

Have you been treated with less than perfect justice?  Probably, but you aren't doing anything to make anyone want to treat you better.  Consider it an initiation if you will.

If you want to continue here, let it go and move on. 
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Choop

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2006, 04:43:37 am »

Look, rule of thumb? If you don't feel welcome on an internet site, you might just not be. If you feel welcome, you might just be.
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jough

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2006, 07:05:28 am »

Well, being unwelcome never stopped you from hanging out here, Choop.

Yeah, I guess You Wang isn't really welcome.  I think he's kind of a dick.  But I will give him the benefit of the doubt starting... NOW.

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 03:38:46 pm »

All clock in the top right-hand corner of the screen counting down slowly.
All Yu-huang not sure whether to come back next week or to take the 1997 honda civic.


EDIT: All me not spelling people's names properly.
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side_show

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 04:06:58 pm »

yu-huang,

I somehow missed all of the other drama posts, so I did go back and read them.

Honestly, honestly, what you need to know is this:  some of us have been posting on one form or other of this message board for years now.  We've been around for a while.  And I'll relate to you a story that is indirectly related to the whole issue, and will help you understand our frustrations:

I used to manage an art gallery.  It was a very small gallery, so an employee and I basically stood near the door for hours greeting people, answering the same questions over and over, and basically being bored.  In the gallery, if one wanted to exit the gallery, one had to push on the door handles (swinging the door outward), not pull.  For whatever reason, perhaps the look/design of the handles made people think they had to pull instead of push to exit, and it's easy to just ignore the small "Push" sign above each handle - the human brain tends to edit out what looks like unimportant information.  The first few times that I saw gallery patrons tugging uselessly on the doors that required a simple push to exit, I was excepting of it - it's a human foible:  If you want to exit a place, and your brain tells you the way to go is by pulling on a door handle, then there's a brief moment of confusion when this simple action doesn't yield the proper results.  Right?

So, time passes - we'll skip the boring in between part - and it's two years later, and I'm still standing by the doors, and every day I see gallery patrons pull on the push doors.  Each time it's someone new.  It's not as if it's the same person every few hours coming in and pulling on the push doors.  People from all over the world come to the gallery and for many it's their first and only visit.  But you know what?  After two years of watching person after person pull on the push doors, I had a small bubbling rage, and so did most of my employees.  Why the hell couldn't people read the damn sign above the door that clearly says push?  Why the hell can't they realize that if they swung the door outward when they entered, that the door again needs to swing outward from them to ext?  Why do some people tug repeatedly and aggressively without even bothering to try pushing?  There were days where I was just so pissed off at the push door situation, that I thought that if I saw one more person tug on them that I would just go off on them, clobber them over the head and run out of the gallery screaming.  Seriously.  Why?  Because I'd seen the same damn mistake happen over and over again, hundreds of times.

And that my friend is what is happening here with the newbies.  We have had so many newbies come and make the exact same mistakes over and over and over again, that it's really hard to keep perspective and remember that they haven' heard us answering the same damn questions over and over and over.  We think, "why the hell don't these people just read a few threads before they make their first post!"  The complaint in an earlier locked thread, was that the board rules were previously unposted... and well, the thing is, a lot of the required etiquette of the board can be easily gleaned by simple observation of the status quo.  If you look at the hundreds of posts under the Achewood category, you can see exactly how each strip - related thread is labelled and hence how to name your subject heading:  list the date, month and year, a tag line related to the strip in some way.  Simple.  But nearly every newbie makes the same mistake of not bothering to notice.  Fools rush in.  Each time it's a different person making the same mistake, but this is the internet - it's just a faceless void of text when you're making that first post - we don't get any sense of who the newbie is, but the same damn mistakes glare out from these posts like red hot pokers.  And it's especially grating when we have problems, because in most cases this board is like a little utopia - lots of fun, lots of laughs, maybe even actual, genuine friendships.  

Newbies all get lumped into a category of "most likely to fuck up," simply so that we can preserve our little word of goodness.  It may not be right, but it's the way it is.  It's sort of like white people in gated-comunity suburbs - it's nice, its safe, and we really only want to let you in if you already know better than to let your dog shit on our front lawn.  It's exclusionary, it's rude, it may even be close-minded, but that's how we maintain a happy message board in a world of shitty ones.  It's gotta be a tight ship.

Yu-huang, I've done nothing but enjoy having you here - I missed the things that were edited out, so I don't really know what the kerfuffle was all about.  I thought it spoke volumes that you showed up at the chat party - I get that you want to be here.
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Bobby Isosceles

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2006, 04:12:13 pm »

yu-huang,

I somehow missed all of the other drama posts, so I did go back and read them.

Honestly, honestly, what you need to know is this:  some of us have been posting on one form or other of this message board for years now.  We've been around for a while.  And I'll relate to you a story that is indirectly related to the whole issue, and will help you understand our frustrations:

I used to manage an art gallery.  It was a very small gallery, so an employee and I basically stood near the door for hours greeting people, answering the same questions over and over, and basically being bored.  In the gallery, if one wanted to exit the gallery, one had to push on the door handles (swinging the door outward), not pull.  For whatever reason, perhaps the look/design of the handles made people think they had to pull instead of push to exit, and it's easy to just ignore the small "Push" sign above each handle - the human brain tends to edit out what looks like unimportant information.  The first few times that I saw gallery patrons tugging uselessly on the doors that required a simple push to exit, I was excepting of it - it's a human foible:  If you want to exit a place, and your brain tells you the way to go is by pulling on a door handle, then there's a brief moment of confusion when this simple action doesn't yield the proper results.  Right?

So, time passes - we'll skip the boring in between part - and it's two years later, and I'm still standing by the doors, and every day I see gallery patrons pull on the push doors.  Each time it's someone new.  It's not as if it's the same person every few hours coming in and pulling on the push doors.  People from all over the world come to the gallery and for many it's their first and only visit.  But you know what?  After two years of watching person after person pull on the push doors, I had a small bubbling rage, and so did most of my employees.  Why the hell couldn't people read the damn sign above the door that clearly says push?  Why the hell can't they realize that if they swung the door outward when they entered, that the door again needs to swing outward from them to ext?  Why do some people tug repeatedly and aggressively without even bothering to try pushing?  There were days where I was just so pissed off at the push door situation, that I thought that if I saw one more person tug on them that I would just go off on them, clobber them over the head and run out of the gallery screaming.  Seriously.  Why?  Because I'd seen the same damn mistake happen over and over again, hundreds of times.

And that my friend is what is happening here with the newbies.  We have had so many newbies come and make the exact same mistakes over and over and over again, that it's really hard to keep perspective and remember that they haven' heard us answering the same damn questions over and over and over.  We think, "why the hell don't these people just read a few threads before they make their first post!"  The complaint in an earlier locked thread, was that the board rules were previously unposted... and well, the thing is, a lot of the required etiquette of the board can be easily gleaned by simple observation of the status quo.  If you look at the hundreds of posts under the Achewood category, you can see exactly how each strip - related thread is labelled and hence how to name your subject heading:  list the date, month and year, a tag line related to the strip in some way.  Simple.  But nearly every newbie makes the same mistake of not bothering to notice.  Fools rush in.  Each time it's a different person making the same mistake, but this is the internet - it's just a faceless void of text when you're making that first post - we don't get any sense of who the newbie is, but the same damn mistakes glare out from these posts like red hot pokers.  And it's especially grating when we have problems, because in most cases this board is like a little utopia - lots of fun, lots of laughs, maybe even actual, genuine friendships. 

Newbies all get lumped into a category of "most likely to fuck up," simply so that we can preserve our little word of goodness.  It may not be right, but it's the way it is.  It's sort of like white people in gated-comunity suburbs - it's nice, its safe, and we really only want to let you in if you already know better than to let your dog shit on our front lawn.  It's exclusionary, it's rude, it may even be close-minded, but that's how we maintain a happy message board in a world of shitty ones.  It's gotta be a tight ship.

Yu-huang, I've done nothing but enjoy having you here - I missed the things that were edited out, so I don't really know what the kerfuffle was all about.  I thought it spoke volumes that you showed up at the chat party - I get that you want to be here.

This was disturbingly rational and level headed. Moreover, the anecdote was apropos and even entertaining. You've raised the bar for this message board and it's your fault when the dick and fart jokes seem lacklustre now. Just so you know. Also you get a can of Dr. Pepper.

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AlohaDawg

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2006, 05:32:58 pm »

Dude, she's campaigning - isn't it obvious?
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jough

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2006, 05:55:21 pm »

Yeah, can I go back and change my vote for Board MVP?

Also, up until this point we've had an open-door policy - anyone over 13 can join this board freely and if they behave themselves are mostly welcomed in.  I mean, I don't think we've ever chided someone for having an unpopular opinion (well, we may chide them, but not to the point of bannation), but only for presenting that opinion in an obnoxious or disruptive way. 

In other words, if this were a house party, we wouldn't object to the loud-mouth schnook who keeps shouting "Freebird!" at the band as much as we would to the quiet guy who takes a shit on the living room carpet.

Yu-Huang came to the party and got diarrhea all over the magazine caddy.  I was going to fuck*ng read those, man!  But then he said "oh, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to unload my #3 on the magazine thing" so I guess what, all's forgiven?

But other people were willing to clean it up and he promised not to do it again, so, you know, welcome to the party.

Anyway, Smells gave me a good idea when she mentioned the white people gated community.  I've been thinking about this for a while now, after the n00b invasion of 2006, and it may benefit the community to have a moderation process for new board members, where they can only post in a sandbox and tell them about themselves before we let them in.

That's possible with the SMF system, so it may behoove us to try it out a little.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 06:01:10 pm by jough »
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side_show

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2006, 06:47:51 pm »

Using the term "behoove" in a sentence gets you a tiny can.

I don't know about actually coralling the newbies into a little area is a good idea, I mean, have you ever heard of the term "reflexive biting?"

Is there any way that we can force people who sign up to actually read a set of rules and "how to post" section before they're allowed to post?  Like send a message to their email in box that they have to read and respond to of something?  Or an enforced lurking period, where someone has to have clearly read X number of posts before they can actually post?  That might work.
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misterqueue

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2006, 06:56:14 pm »

I don't know about actually coralling the newbies into a little area is a good idea, I mean, have you ever heard of the term "reflexive biting?"

Can we shoot at them in the corral?

Anyway I suggest we let the cans be our guide.  Maybe a silencing feature when you hit a certain negative number.  (You can still PM but not post, etc)  And on the other side you can't take away cans until you hit a certain positive number. (That way it prevents overactive abuse of said system).

Just thinkin' out loud here people.
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Choop

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Re: AugustWest, I object to "reacting poorly"
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2006, 07:06:20 pm »

The system already tracks how much time one has wasted here. What say we allow memberships freely, but prevent newbs from posting until their info shows they've wasted 3+ hours reading?

Should some newb not waste 3+ hours before posting, it'll be obvious by the content of the post, and we can judge by that.
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