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[wombat]

I mentioned downloading one particular album on my lj / offered up mp3s recently and someone who worked on the band's website found me through google; all they asked was if I was going to buy it when it came out.. ahah.  I think most bands encourage downloading as long as they're supported in some way.

Can I just pop in here for a moment and remind everyone that if bands don't get money for their music, they can't make any more music?  This is not a really a modern computer technology thing so I am not being an old fart telling you kids to get off the lawn -- it's exactly like years ago when I knew a guy whose whole record collection was cassette tapes of things he'd borrowed from people.  (He thought it was clever. As a semiprofessional musician and friend of musicians at the time,  I thought he was going to Hell.)  It is one thing to pass around single tracks that might encourage people to go out and buy someone's album but surely we should not be giving away whole albums on our websites?

I admit I am little extreme on this - I even have a personal rule (although the rule does have some exceptions and codicils) against buying used books written by living authors.  But you know, an awful lot of people who make our entertainment are still waiting tables to make a living.  If we give their work away, so they decide they can't afford to make more, all we're going to have left is what the major corporations want us to have.

[starlight]

surely we should not be giving away whole albums on our websites?

Mmm.. no, I agree with you there.
I try not to do that and if I do / if it's in advance, before the album comes out, I put it up for a limited amount of time.  I only still have one album on my site I haven't deleted yet.

I also must note that I own at least 400 real albums; I enjoy the packaging / art.. it's a bit of an obsession of mine.

Yes, I download music, but it's mostly to sample.  I keep a list of ones I still need to buy.  I'm not rich, but I do try to buy what I can.

Also, I've heard bands / artists get more from shows / merchandise sold at the shows than they do from album sales.  I won't argue that point though.  just tossing it out since I had heard.

[pmcd9]

I agree with Wombat in principle, one shouldn't steal music.  But in todays world, downloading is the modern equivilant of the radio.  If somebody tells you about something new, don't hold your breath waiting for the radio station to play it.  Download it, if you like it, buy it.  Sure there is abuse of this system and there should be a better way (I-Tunes and others encoding an expiration date on their paid downloads sure ain't it), but in my experience the ones who download the most are also the biggest customers of the music industry.  Starlight and myself and probably many others on this board are a perfect example of this.

~Paul

[wombat]

I hope you are right, Paul.  But people who ought to know better don't always, you know?  Another story:  When my friend's first book came out, she got an email from an aquaintance telling her how much he had liked it and oh, he'd been lucky enough to find a used copy at half price even though the book was brand new.  She was so flabbergasted that she didn't even say anything to him about it.  He was an educated guy but he obviously had no clue that A, she didn't get any money for that copy, and B, whether she ever got to publish a second book would depend in large part on how many NEW copies of her first book were sold. (So that C - for pete's sake at least don't brag about the great deal you got to the author!)  I think sometimes people look at a shiny new book or CD and forget that most people who make art are just getting by.

[starlight]

There is one easy way I've seen -- streaming.
Some bands put up their new album in full to hear before it comes out, but not all have caught on to this.

Wombat - As for the book thing; well, I always buy my books new; I get a bit skeeved by old copies.  I have known people close enough to me who have made books and I always support them by buying it when it comes out then pimp it.  I have done it for my music friends, too (though one personally gave me a free copy of their album).

I agree about the support thing fully.

[pmcd9]

I hope you are right, Paul.  But people who ought to know better don't always, you know?  Another story:  When my friend's first book came out, she got an email from an aquaintance telling her how much he had liked it and oh, he'd been lucky enough to find a used copy at half price even though the book was brand new.  She was so flabbergasted that she didn't even say anything to him about it.  He was an educated guy but he obviously had no clue that A, she didn't get any money for that copy, and B, whether she ever got to publish a second book would depend in large part on how many NEW copies of her first book were sold. (So that C - for pete's sake at least don't brag about the great deal you got to the author!)  I think sometimes people look at a shiny new book or CD and forget that most people who make art are just getting by.

I disagree with the idea that a book should be read only by one person and then discarded.  While it may be a bit crass to brag to the author that you found a deal on their book, it's certainly not wrong to buy a used book.

~Paul

[starlight]

I disagree with the idea that a book should be read only by one person and then discarded.  While it may be a bit crass to brag to the author that you found a deal on their book, it's certainly not wrong to buy a used book.

~Paul

I partially agree with you, too Paul...
My own reasons for buying new shouldn't be held up by everyone.  I'm happy if people are just reading.  I was shocked to know of some people I know who don't like to read at all.

I have bought used albums if I want them bad enough and it's out of print.. can't explain why one is acceptable to me and one is not.  I'm weird.  heh.

(though one used book I got ages ago on eBay had a bit of dried food on one of the pages; perhaps that's a big reason I stopped with the used books.. heh)

[AlohaDawg]

It's an interesting subject. Once the original book/album is paid for, what does the owner own? Do I have the right to give away or sell my property (i.e. the book or album)?

What about used cars? Furniture? Property? What portion of the rights to these things does the creator of them own...and how is that different, really, from words or music, which aren't even physical? And how do you assign value to an idea...or depreciate/appreciate it's value in the marketplace of ideas?

Just interested in the discussion here. I do buy used books and music. I believe the original purchase of the item satisfies the rightful need of the creator of the book or music to be compensated. Indeed, if I like it well enough to go out and buy other titles brand new, it could be argued that the author/musician owes the person who sold it to me a 'promotional fee'. Or me, if I recommend the book.

I think it's a fair use thing - as long as the content is not commandeered for commercial profit, I think the resale of the physical items is OK.

However, do not EVER buy a book that the cover has been torn off of. This often means it was unsold in the bookstore and the author did not get any compensation or credit for that copy.

 

[idiomsavant]

I hope you are right, Paul.  But people who ought to know better don't always, you know?  Another story:  When my friend's first book came out, she got an email from an aquaintance telling her how much he had liked it and oh, he'd been lucky enough to find a used copy at half price even though the book was brand new.  She was so flabbergasted that she didn't even say anything to him about it.  He was an educated guy but he obviously had no clue that A, she didn't get any money for that copy, and B, whether she ever got to publish a second book would depend in large part on how many NEW copies of her first book were sold. (So that C - for pete's sake at least don't brag about the great deal you got to the author!)  I think sometimes people look at a shiny new book or CD and forget that most people who make art are just getting by.

Not to mention: D, the author got to hear that one person who did buy the book new got rid of it as soon as possible at the used bookstore.  (Unless the book wasn't purchased new at all initially but E, stolen, which happens sometimes -- shoplifters try to pass off recently-heisted merchandise at secondhand bookstores.)  What hard-working writer wouldn't love to get a compliment like that?

[miles]

It's an interesting subject. Once the original book/album is paid for, what does the owner own? Do I have the right to give away or sell my property (i.e. the book or album)?

It really is an interesting subject.  Where's our Third Year Law Student?

There's also the related question of ... portability ... ?  Is that the word?  Whether you have the right to transfer the information on the CD (or whatever) you own to any format?

[AugustWest]

I am not an intellectual property lawyer.  But I am a lawyer.

My take on this subject is that this is an area of the law that is very much in flux.  The law hasn't caught up with the world yet.

Eventually it will happen and in painful detail.  But the wheels of the law grind slow, but exceedingly small.

[CortJstr]

As we've said in other threads there's a huge push from the *AA's and such to "reeducate" consumers to the fact that just because we own a CD, DVD, or book doesn't mean we have any implied rights as to the content. There was a story (I think in Wired) a couple years ago where they do basically want to ban second hand stores because we as consumers only have the right to transfer or resell the medium and not the work it contains. Which sounds absolutely insane to me because it means I can only give somebody I book I read if I somehow find a way to not also give them the words printed in it.

[wombat]

It's an interesting subject. Once the original book/album is paid for, what does the owner own? Do I have the right to give away or sell my property (i.e. the book or album)?

I think that "rights" is a separate question.  I am more interested in thinking about the consequences of our actions.  I have a right to go to Starbucks, but if that means that my much better local coffee shop goes out of business, I'm not going to be happy.  I have a right to buy a used book, but if that means my favorite author can't get her next book published or my favorite band breaks up... I'm just saying, be concious of it.

[AlohaDawg]

As we've said in other threads there's a huge push from the *AA's and such to "reeducate" consumers to the fact that just because we own a CD, DVD, or book doesn't mean we have any implied rights as to the content. There was a story (I think in Wired) a couple years ago where they do basically want to ban second hand stores because we as consumers only have the right to transfer or resell the medium and not the work it contains. Which sounds absolutely insane to me because it means I can only give somebody I book I read if I somehow find a way to not also give them the words printed in it.

As if college isn't expensive enough. Eventually you'll be paying for textbooks by the word. And everything will be electronic. All publishing will become underground publishing. The future looks kind of grim.

[starlight]

*bump*

I've made a new mix!  no, it's not yoga related, but!  hell, this should just be the thread where I post my random mixes:

Monsters
01. Injured Teddy (clip)
02. Duplex - Desolate State
03. Hot Chip - Barbarian
04. The Futureheads - Hounds of Love
05. Two Gallants - Steady Rollin'
06. Band of hosss - Monsters
07. Buck 65 - Blood of a Young Wolf
08. Neko Case - The Needle Has Landed
09. Mountains - Bay
10. Ms. John Soda - Outlined View
11. Devics - Just One Breath
12. Guitar - Red & White
13. Drowsy - Bed of Pyre & Wood
14. Calexico - Letter To Bowie Knife
15. Mountaineer - Sleep and Me
16. The National - Karen
17. Centro-Matic - Triggers and Trash Heaps
18. I'm Not a Gun - Continuous Sky

Also, a slight warning... this mix?  a bit more eclectic than the last + a few of the songs are at the wrong volume or just plain distorted if at too high of a level.. it still sounds pretty equal on a tinny laptop.. just not on headphones / disc.

I could've went into my editing program, but it got tiresome.. I did add fade ins/outs on a lot of them though.  that beginning clip I made based on a dare.. it's from a video on google.. I just recorded the ending line and added an echo / crossfaded it with an electro song I had real quick-like.

Feel free to ignore if the horror is too much to handle.. heh!
-hides at the bottom of my old thread-

ETA:  erm.. track 6 came out hosses yet it's H-O-R-S-E-S, so make sure to fix that link when dling that one... dunno how to fix it :|