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Author Topic: Buying a new PC...  (Read 13639 times)

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Doc

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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2006, 10:06:09 am »

Both the (reasonably) high end cards I've bought recently  came with DVI to VGA adapters (despite having both vga and dvi ports) so I doubt there'll be a problem there, but really Smells don't want to know about no x1900xtx.
S_S: Have you thought about a laptop? For the level of power you are looking for there are plenty of small quiet lappies around that aren't insanely expensive compared to their desktop brethren.

After browsing the Dell and HP sites it seems that Dell has better specs overall for desktops, I think for your purposes the low end model of this could suit you well enough though the chipset is on the sluggish side. Here is a reasonable laptop from HP, again RAM and chip speed are suboptimal (so is video but thats not really an issue with you).
As a disclaimer I picked these after only a few minutes browsing on the assumption that all you are doing is typing and surfing the net and maybe watch movies etc, since any current computer can perform these tasks adequately the main concern is that your system will be able to cope with the demands (read: needless bloatage) of future windows upgrades which you may or may not choose to install.

At the end of the day I'd say, as has already been said:
  • At least 1 gig of RAM - this shit is non-negotiable if you plan on running any current or future version of windows. I sound like a dick saying this but since you said you know nothing about computers I'll take you at your word and remind you that 1 gigabyte of ram = 2 x 512 megabytes. Make sure it is coming with the whole gig already inside and room for more later, no point getting a rig that has four slots taken up by four 256meg sticks.
  • At least something equating to a 2gig CPU(as above these numbers mean less and less and a dual core AMD or 64bit chipset is preferable but again I'm assuming you're just going to ride out the pre-installed software for the next 6 years so something in the 2s will probably be enough and save you a little bit of cash).
  • Integrated video is your most hated foe. You want to see the words Invidia or ATI associated with your video card, even if you have no intention of gaming intel integrated video just isn't even an option. Also if you decide on the laptop route, beware shared video memory, this means it uses some of your system RAM this isn't necessarily a bad thing I guess but I personally avoid it.

Now that this rant has grown beyond what I intended I'll round it off with a final chiding: Your specs mean nothing if you don't exercise eternal vigilance! This means obvious stuff like a virus scanner and so on but also it means adaware and other tools. My brother threw down 3 large to build him a tasty rig just over a year ago, now 3k australian will not get you what 3k of your american dollars will but the machine was a tasty piece of ass if I do say so myself. After I assembled it it was sealed like an hermetic chamber and has suffered no hardware problems but due to his lack of vigilance he has filled the poor thing with such as crappy programs full of spyware and adware that the damn thing takes longer to log in than my mother's damn celeron 900 that we bought in 2000.

Just remember to take everything we say with a bit of salt, we are geeks so we probably over-estimate a bit what you need. If you honestly only see yourself typing and surfing and listening to music for the next 10 years then the only issue you face is compatibility with current versions of windows, and while the minimum specs for windows  get sillier and sillier with each iteration I can't see it exceeding a gig of ram and a current 64 bit processor in the next five years. And if you're happy with your software you wouldn't be upgrading anyway so it doesn't matter worth a damn.

Harlan Ellison apparently still uses a typewriter and types with two fingers so I'd imagine you can get away with less than cutting edge components if you want, it's all about what you need.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 10:40:53 am by Doc »
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2006, 12:35:36 pm »

Wow, good advice abounds.  I am glad.

Since I recall that you live in Canada, I went to HP Canada's site to look for computers for you.  Unfortunately, HP Canada does not believe in custom PCs, and I didn't really see a model that fit.

I will walk you through a recommended system here.  Click on the red "Customize" button (not the "Recommended" button) and proceed from top to bottom:

For the Operating System: Windows XP Home is fine.  I honestly don't know what value lies in Media Center Edition, and Professional doesn't do anything extra you need.

For the processor: The Athlon 64 3400+ is more power than your current computer can dream of, and should run anything (that is not a game) in the future.  The $30 upgrade to the 3700+ is something you might consider for a little bit of extra speed, but it will add nothing in terms of capability.  HP says that it is "great for editing digital photos," but so was a pentium II in 1999.  The 3800+ is unnecessary for your purposes.

Memory: You want at least the 1 GB option.  Note how it says 2x512 there - that means you will have 2 sticks of RAM, leaving 2 slots free for future expansion.  I can never recommend against extra RAM, so if you want to splurge here go ahead, but know that RAM prices are constantly falling, and adding more is a simple task once the computer is home.

Hard Drive: Take the free upgrade from 40 to 80 GB.  This will be more than enough space provided you do not store a lot of music or any video on your computer.  Video gets big, quickly, and if you think you might want to get into editing video digitally (To make DVDs of videotaped performances, for example), I would definitely pay $40 more to double the size to 160GB.  Luckily this is also an easy upgrade to make if your needs change, and prices for storage fall fast as well, so don't worry about being "locked in" to a smaller size.

HP Personal Media Drives: You say you have one of these, so don't bother here.

Primary CD/DVD Drive: Double Layer 16X DVD +/-R/RW drive.  The capability to burn DVDs for archival purposes is important, and Double Layer means you can store more on a single disk.  Although LightScribe disks look neat and possibly more "professional," you have to purchase special disks to use that feature, and they cost much more than normal ones.   Splurge if you feel like it.

Secondary CD/DVD Drive: Unnecessary.  I had a system with two drives for a while and all it meant was I had another place to lose CDs in.

Premium CD/DVD Burner Software: Although you need software to burn CDs and DVDs, you can buy it at this price or better from a store, and you'll have a choice of brands as well.

Front Productivity Ports: The standard option will fit what you have now, but a 9-in-1 memory card reader is convenient if you use a digital camera (or mp3 player with removable storage).  Having one means you don't have to turn the camera on to get the photos off of it and onto your computer.

Removable Storage:  Floppy drives are also convenient, but slow.  You said you had other options for transporting data, so it's up to you if you think you would use one again.

Monitors: These prices are high.  If you're okay with your monitor now, you don't need a new one.  Prices are always dropping on them anyway.  (If you DO want to get one, Dell is having a 20% off sale at the moment, and the 19" one is very nice...)

Speakers: You probably have a set already that do what you want them to do.  If not, buy a set from Logitech, not these.

TV & Entertainment Experience: Watching TV on your computer is not rad.

Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce 6200se.  Honestly I would prefer another option, as the SE suffix usually means a compromise, but it's either that or integrated video, which would be even worse.  An alternate option would be to get the integrated video and spend $50 on a separate card (this would buy a very adequate card, but that's a whole other thread).  Your friend could help you with this.

Sound Card: They give you an option of basic or incredibly advanced here.  I would go with the integrated sound, then if you are unsatisfied (popping, crackling, etc) you can add a better card later for less than the Sound Blaster card they give you here.  Sound Blaster is the brand I would go with, however, so this certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.

Keyboard and penis: I prefer an optical penis, but this is entirely up to your preference.  The multimedia keyboard is not a feature in my mind -- mine has a bunch of extra buttons, but I never turned them on.  Wireless means you have another thing to buy batteries for, and can be unreliable.  I don't like it, but if you want it buy a separate set from Logitech or Microsoft and you'll be much happier.

Productivity Software: This is entirely up to you.  You might be able to get educational pricing on software through your workplace, and if you can you should definitely do that.  You will save lots of money.  If you can not get educational pricing, this is the cheapest you can legally obtain Microsoft Office products, and $40 for Word 2002 isn't that bad.

Security Software:  I personally don't run anything but an antivirus program, and I've seen the Internet Security suite do bad things to a computer.  If you currently use Norton Internet Security and are happy with it, though, this is as good a place as any to get it.

Finance & Accounting Software: Totally up to you.

Premium Photography Software: You either have your own already or you don't need this.

Back-Up & Utilities Software: Another "store purchase."

HP Extended Service Plans: 1 year is free.  You might consider the House Call Extended Service Plan (if it is available in your area), because you'd be paying at least that much for one service call from a tech.  As for Accidental Damage Protection, I tend to think these are not worth the money, mostly because the rules to make a claim are usually so arcane it's quicker to buy the parts yourself.  Sill, if you're accident prone...

Accessories: See how expensive LightScribe disks are?

The next page: If you need anything here, you already own it to run your current computer.

The next page: If you have a printer, it will work with this computer.  If you need a printer, remember to buy a USB cable with it (but don't worry about gold plugs or "high quality" whatnot).

So.  Even though you probably can't use this form to buy your computer, it's still a good thing to go through all of the components that make a computer and see what the options are and why you would choose one over the other.  Hope this helped.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2006, 04:13:02 pm »

For the Operating System: Windows XP Home is fine.  I honestly don't know what value lies in Media Center Edition, and Professional doesn't do anything extra you need.

For anyone planning to use their network card (i.e. even going on the internet with a cable modem or DSL) I would recommend XP Pro, just because there is no security in XP Home.  None.  Your PC will be pretty much completely open to the outside world.

For $20 Windows XP Media Center Edition has all of the security and extra networking options of XP Pro, PLUS extra media playing stuff.  Get it if it's only a $20 upgrade.

Quote
For the processor: The Athlon 64 3400+ is more power than your current computer can dream of, and should run anything (that is not a game) in the future.  The $30 upgrade to the 3700+ is something you might consider for a little bit of extra speed, but it will add nothing in terms of capability.  HP says that it is "great for editing digital photos," but so was a pentium II in 1999.  The 3800+ is unnecessary for your purposes.

Well, you'll get slightly better performance with each of these upgrades, but look at the prices:

AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3400+ (2.2GHz / 512KB L2 cache)
Exceptional performance, power, and reliability
Included in price

AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3700+ (2.2GHz / 1MB L2 cache)
Great for editing digital photos
+$30.00

AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3800+ (2.4GHz / 512KB L2 cache)
Leading-edge performance with simultaneous 32- and 64-bit computing
+$100.00

Of course, all of these prices are USD.

But you can see in almost every upgrade category that there seems to be two options: one that is only a little tiny bit more than you're already paying, and then the much higher option.  The middle options, the ones that add an extra $20-40 are what I call the "no-brainer" options.  They aren't even a decision.  Get all of the cheap upgrades you can if you're customizing a system.

There are some things you can easily upgrade later: memory, DVD burner, video card, and things you *can't* easily upgrade: CPU (processor), Hard Drive (unless you want to just add-on another drive, but keep in mind that these systems will usually only have room for one or two drives, and hard drive space tends to fill up over time, especially over ten years.  Do you really want to spend half your day having to decide on which old files to delete because you're running out of hard drive space constantly?  - although having said that, I like to add-on hard drive capacity for music and videos by using external USB drives, so there is ALWAYS room for expansion in the hard drive area - just keep in mind that you cannot install programs to these extra drives to run).

Quote
Memory: You want at least the 1 GB option.  Note how it says 2x512 there - that means you will have 2 sticks of RAM, leaving 2 slots free for future expansion.

Having said that, it is stupid to put more than 2Gb in a 32-bit Windows XP system because Windows can't really use more than 2Gb anyway.  BUT - if you're planning on upgrading your OS any time in the next ten years (and with Vista rolling out next year, you likely will have to upgrade to it at some point) you'll want to leave room for future expansion.  So put the largest capacity chips you can in your RAM slots (or rather, have someone else put...).

Quote
Hard Drive: Take the free upgrade from 40 to 80 GB.  This will be more than enough space provided you do not store a lot of music or any video on your computer.  Video gets big, quickly, and if you think you might want to get into editing video digitally (To make DVDs of videotaped performances, for example), I would definitely pay $40 more to double the size to 160GB.

The "free" upgrade is of course obvious.  There is no reason not to take anything they're giving you.  The $40 more for twice the capacity is the "no brainer" upgrade.  Take it.  You take.  Take take.

Quote
Luckily this is also an easy upgrade to make if your needs change

Well, it's not *that* easy.  Putting in a new hard drive means that you have to re-install windows and all of your applications, settings, files, etc.  It is not an easy upgrade path.

I found 80Gb on my laptop was fine for applications... in 2005.  But if you want to use this thing in 5-10 years time it won't be enough.  So if you get only 80Gb, keep in mind that you will likely HAVE to upgrade this at some point in the future.

Quote
Secondary CD/DVD Drive: Unnecessary.  I had a system with two drives for a while and all it meant was I had another place to lose CDs in.

A second CD/DVD drive is great if you copy discs a lot.  You can put the original in one drive and the copy in another and walk away - no more changing out discs.

However, the prices they're offering here are horrible for a second drive.  You can easily have someone put in a newer drive later. And with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD coming out this year, in a few years these drives will all be replaced (in the marketplace) by discs with greater burning capacity, and you'll be able to add one of those for about the same price as a DVD burner now.

Quote
Premium CD/DVD Burner Software: Although you need software to burn CDs and DVDs, you can buy it at this price or better from a store, and you'll have a choice of brands as well.

Something else to note: don't buy any software with your PC.  I mean, accept whatever they give you for free, even if you're not planning to use it, but don't pay them any extra.  You can get stuff cheaper and with more options later at any PC or electronics store.

Quote
Front Productivity Ports: The standard option will fit what you have now, but a 9-in-1 memory card reader is convenient if you use a digital camera (or mp3 player with removable storage).  Having one means you don't have to turn the camera on to get the photos off of it and onto your computer.

I wouldn't really worry about this one: but: $10.  No-brainer.  Get it.

Quote
Removable Storage:  Floppy drives are also convenient, but slow.  You said you had other options for transporting data, so it's up to you if you think you would use one again.

It's funny that floppies are more expensive than writeable DVDs now.  And good luck finding another PC that uses them.  You can save $20 here, or you can add one later for $5-10.

Quote
Monitors: These prices are high.

Yeah, you can shop around later and get a better monitor.  You'll want to get one that has at least a 1280x1024 resolution, and is 17-19".  If you're using a 10 year old monitor, it's probably running about 800x600, meaning that you're constantly scrolling to see things, right?

A good LCD will be worth it not only in terms of reducing eye strain and headaches, but also in terms of just having more on screen than you do now, while keeping everything a nice big size.

I tend to go for a moderate resolution on a big screen so that everything is slightly larger than average on it.  This is because I am half blind, though.  If you don't have that problem, then the sky's the limit in terms of resolution.  The bigger the resolution, the more that you'll be able to see on screen at once.  For a writer, let me tell you that it is valuable to be able to read things faster and see more of a script to edit.

Quote
Speakers: You probably have a set already that do what you want them to do.  If not, buy a set from Logitech, not these.

Logitech is hardly a speaker manufacturer.  I would recommend you either use what you have or get something cheap at the store later.  Unless you're going to be listening to a lot of music on your PC, the speakers almost don't matter, as long as you have speakers of some kind.  Even the cheap ones are decent enough to watch videos or listen to NPR or something.

Quote
TV & Entertainment Experience: Watching TV on your computer is not rad.

It's quite rad. I do it all the time.  I have a window playing last night's 24 on right now next to this one (a nice advantage to a widescreen monitor).

However, there are upgrade options later.  Again, since I was a laptop users for the past 5 years all of my peripherals are external.  So I have a USB2 TV tuner device.  It works great, and does the video encoding in the box so my CPU doesn't have to do the work when I want to record something.  It's like a Tivo, only in my PC.  And I can burn stuff that I record to DVD to watch on a regular television later, which is most certainly rad by anyone's definition.

Quote
Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce 6200se.  Honestly I would prefer another option, as the SE suffix usually means a compromise, but it's either that or integrated video, which would be even worse.  An alternate option would be to get the integrated video and spend $50 on a separate card (this would buy a very adequate card, but that's a whole other thread).  Your friend could help you with this.

Yeah, definitely don't buy an extra video card from wherever you get your PC now.  Get the integrated video, which will surf the internet and play movies just fine.  You can add on a better card later if you find video performance lagging or stuttering.  You likely won't.

Quote
Sound Card: They give you an option of basic or incredibly advanced here.  I would go with the integrated sound, then if you are unsatisfied (popping, crackling, etc) you can add a better card later for less than the Sound Blaster card they give you here.  Sound Blaster is the brand I would go with, however, so this certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.

Yeah, Creative SoundBlaster pretty much owns the sound card market, and has for years.

Having said that, my RealTek integrated audio is what I use, and it works great.  It has surround sound that I'm not using, too.

Quote
Keyboard and penis: I prefer an optical penis, but this is entirely up to your preference.  The multimedia keyboard is not a feature in my mind -- mine has a bunch of extra buttons, but I never turned them on.  Wireless means you have another thing to buy batteries for, and can be unreliable.  I don't like it, but if you want it buy a separate set from Logitech or Microsoft and you'll be much happier.

Okay, my preferences for keyboards is that they be as simple and as pleasurable to type on as possible. My current $6 keyboard is great, if a little clicky/noisy.  But this is something you can upgrade later for very little money.  Keyboards are about the cheapest thing you can buy. 

Personally I hate those multimedia keyboards with all of the fancy buttons and controls, as I find they get in the way of typing sometimes (I really hate the ones that put extra buttons for media controls where other regular keys should be).

As far as mice go, I can't believe they're even offering ball mice anymore.  They're horrible.  You'll want to pick up a cheap ($10 or so) optical penis ASAP.  Personally I got a Microsoft Wireless Optical penis - it gets 6 months of battery life on one pair of AA batteries and the freedom of the cordlessness is awesome.  I love mine, but really the cord is not that big of a problem for most people.

I also hate extra buttons that I tend to accidentally click just when the click option can do something horrible (on no, I just deleted an important file!  that was such a bad decision!), so I tend to go pretty basic with my penis as well as keyboard. 
But an optical penis over a ball penis is so much better in pretty much every way. 

Quote
Productivity Software: This is entirely up to you.  You might be able to get educational pricing on software through your workplace, and if you can you should definitely do that.  You will save lots of money.  If you can not get educational pricing, this is the cheapest you can legally obtain Microsoft Office products, and $40 for Word 2002 isn't that bad.

There is no Word 2002, so I don't know what the hell they're selling there for $40.  Probably Works 2002, which is not Word and which has an added K for "Suck."  Maybe it's Word 2003.  The previous version was Word 2000.

If you can't get educational pricing on Office, I think I have an extra copy that came with an old PC that I can give you.  Or someone else can.  It's ubiquitous.

Again, buying software with a new PC package is like getting floor mats and shinier hub caps from the dealership.  They'll install them for you, but you'll pay through the nose for it.

Quote
HP Extended Service Plans: 1 year is free.  You might consider the House Call Extended Service Plan (if it is available in your area), because you'd be paying at least that much for one service call from a tech.  As for Accidental Damage Protection, I tend to think these are not worth the money, mostly because the rules to make a claim are usually so arcane it's quicker to buy the parts yourself.  Sill, if you're accident prone...

You don't need accident protection unless you're buying a laptop.  That is, unless you've ever knocked your desktop PC off of the desk. If so, get the accident protection.  Otherwise, get as long of a warranty as they'll sell you. It looks like the 3-year extended is $5 more than the 2-year with accident protection, so again, it's a non-decision.  You take. Take take.

Quote
The next page: If you have a printer, it will work with this computer.  If you need a printer, remember to buy a USB cable with it (but don't worry about gold plugs or "high quality" whatnot).

Yeah, unless your printer is more than 4-years old and uses a parallel port, which this computer may or may not come with.

Of course, you can always buy a new printer later. Keep in mind that you can likely get a decent HP printer at the store for about what you'd pay for ink for your old one.  The ink prices tend to go up on older printers, that is, until you can't even buy the cartridges anymore, which is what happened to my 6-year old printer before I bought the current one... two years ago this month. 

Anyway, with my recommended options, this computer would cost you $759.98 USD, which today is $879.39 CAD.  And you'll have actually a pretty kick-ass system that will last you for quite a few years, and be upgradeable for the things that you may need later. Or not.  But you'll have the option.

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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2006, 04:22:15 pm »

Holy Jesus, when is this book coming out?

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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2006, 05:13:52 pm »

Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2006, 06:07:00 pm »

Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.

Don't worry, it'll be obsolete before you get it out of the box anyhow.

Since you are a writer, I wonder how much of your purchase you can deduct from your income taxes as a business expense. I'm just trying to help you justify the upgrades is all.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2006, 08:32:31 pm »

I think this is the first ever non-diety/non-sports post I've ever just given up on and skipped. Granted it was basically directed entirely at another person who presumably found it helpful, but still.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 08:51:58 pm by CortJstr »
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2006, 08:34:22 pm »

basically directly entirely


*Adverbs!*
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2006, 08:53:10 pm »


*Adverbs!*

You win this round. Actually when spelling, grammar, and/or my typing skills are involved let's just say I conceed the entire contest and challenge you to a game of Worms: Armageddon. Winner take all.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2006, 11:05:57 pm »

You win this round. Actually when spelling, grammar, and/or my typing skills are involved let's just say I conceed the entire contest and challenge you to a game of Worms: Armageddon. Winner take all.

That is not at all fair.  At least you're acquainted with the English language. 






Also, you spelled "concede" incorrectly.  I am sorry about this.  I have a problem.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2006, 11:19:02 pm »

Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.

You're welcome?

Er... I thought I was breaking it down simply - the unfortunate truth is that computers are made up of many different parts, and they all need a decision.  But the basic components come down to this:

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 = speed, new tech, value.  Don't spend a lot for minor speed gains.
RAM: As much as you can afford, leave open slots for later expansion.
Hard drive: Get as much as you can afford, but don't make it the most expensive component in the system.
Video card: If you do not get a separate card, make sure the computer has a free PCI-Express slot (not AGP) for a later upgrade.  The entry-level price point for these is around $50 and they are well worth it.

Everything else is basically gravy.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2006, 11:50:34 pm »

so.
I have a 5 year old dell laptop.

this computer is the hell.
at this point, I cannot defragment the main drive, because there is not enough free space.
I only have a few programs installed on the main drive. all of my music files are on an external drive. as are my pictures, videos, etc.
I do not know what is taking up all of this space on drive C. I should have multiple gigs free.

But anyway: yes. my computer is old, too.
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FlipConstantine

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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2006, 12:20:24 am »

so.
I have a 5 year old dell laptop.

this computer is the hell.
at this point, I cannot defragment the main drive, because there is not enough free space.
I only have a few programs installed on the main drive. all of my music files are on an external drive. as are my pictures, videos, etc.
I do not know what is taking up all of this space on drive C. I should have multiple gigs free.

But anyway: yes. my computer is old, too.

run fdisk from the command line and see if the output has any mysterious partitions.  That happened to my dad when he tried to install Windows ME (WHYYYY) on an old thinkpad.  He didn't realize that it partitioned the drive exactly in half for some reason.  This is kind of a long shot, but hey, give it a whirl.
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miles

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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2006, 01:27:56 am »

Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.

Seriously.  I'm afraid to ever buy a computer again.
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Re: Buying a new PC...
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2006, 01:40:33 am »

yeah, I know that it has a partition.
the fun thing is, a guy who I now hate (see: guy who my ex-girlfriend cheated on me with, guy who I used to be in a band with, guy who my ex-girlfriend will probably now date, former best friend) borrowed my copy of PartitionMagic and never gave it back. because he is a rich fuck who doesn't take care of material things,  it was lost somewhere in his bottomless pit of a house.

once, I experimented with linux. I have lost something like 10 gb to this monster. but I am too ashamed to face this "linux" and admit failure.
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Social pressures exist
And if you think about them all of the time
You're gonna find that your head's been kicked in
You're gonna do it all for the grind
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