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[Doc]

I don't see how having less people spread over a larger area makes it easier? Surely having more people closer together would reduce overall infrastructure costs per person? (Edit: we DO have natural resources up the wazoo actually, but the US isn't exactly hurting for cash compared to many other, much more densely populated, countries.)

RB: Glad I could bring something constructive to this.

[Doc]

They say a lot of things that liberal democrats love to hear but will the democrats risk such an important election by trying to make history?

I don't see that it is an important election. Even if a republican gets in I get the feeling they are going to move away from Bush's hardcore neocon shit and a democrat who gets in is probably still going to have to be fairly moderate just to get elected.

I should say here there are still lots of things I disagree with from your 'democrat' side of politics. Using tariffs and other bullshit because you don't want your country's (not YOUR country, just countries in general) industries to have to compete in the real world is some grade a bullshit in my book, so I tend to swing back and forth in my voting depending on whether I think our economy needs a boost or social services need some more attention.

[Teatime]

I tend to swing back and forth in my voting depending on whether I think our economy needs a boost or social services need some more attention.

So what is your call on the current election, where we are pretty much in need of both?

[littlefallsmets]

This is the thing about the free-market that I've been saying that... people haven't been responding to.

A completely free-market is awesome for about three seconds until an elite sorts out and subverts the rules of a completely free-market into a system that is not at all about a free-market and completely about protecting and multiplying their power, resources and elite status.

And if the government and media are owned by and/or unduely influenced by that elite... then they're going to have the government and media say that things like universal education and health care are impossible.

Because the models that allow these things will tax the elite to the point where they can only buy two new yachts this year.

The myth of the completely free-market isn't an end, it's a mean to an end that is promptly discarded once an elite has consolidated power through it. Once the monopoly exists, suddenly the people who own the monopoly don't believe in competition anymore.

The acceptance of this idea by people without the resources of the elite is at best the arrogance of the person believing that, well, THEY are strong enough to find a trick if all the rules are off or at worst, a societal Stockholm Syndrome, an underclass functioning as "Uncle Tom slaves" did, believing that if they just behave enough, they'll get the master's leftovers instead of gruel.

[Sub_Topical]

This is the thing about the free-market that I've been saying that... people haven't been responding to.

A business environment friendly to entrepnuers while defining and monitoring with a light hand until necessary the effect and influence of pan-national corporations based in this country.

Political reform involving term limits, redistricting courts and funding (less is better). Naked debates.

Actually, those two were thrown in because of the effects of econical/political power mating resulting in the type of issues you so graphically describe.

Just I gotta different idea on how to neuter the beast birthed of the two.

Plus, I mean c'mon, NAKED DEBATES!

[Nabubrush]

Plus, I mean c'mon, NAKED DEBATES!

Fuck, nobody watches 'em as it is - do you want there just to be three voters that decide everything?

[Arachno-capitalist]

Well youre giraffeing for a response so I'll give it.
Your idea of the end-game is distorted. In true capitalism there is competition and competition insures that your situation never occurs. Look at places where wal-mart is the only game in town. Does wal-mart then sky rocket prices to steal all the money from the area? No that would be foolish because someone would just come in and offer things at reasonable prices. In fact wal-mart does just the opposite- they offer low prices to remain competitive. In a purely capitalist society there are incentives to please the consumer not rob him blind or oppress him. In government there the incentive is just the opposite. Government lacks a residual claimant who is interested in satisfying the consumer and has only incentives to give rewards to the few at the cost of many- diffused costs and concentrated benefits.

[AugustWest]

... redistricting courts ...

I've purposely been staying out of this, and I fully intend to continue with this policy.  I'm just intrigued by the idea that redistricting courts could have some significant effect.  Care to elaborate on that one?

[Teatime]

I'm trying to place this as mildly as possible. You are suggesting that "places where Wal-Mart is the only game in town" are examples of the pinnacle of capitalism.

To me this is not a Good Thing.

[Arachno-capitalist]

I was using it as a counter-example of the nightmare presented by LFM. Wal-mart provides a wide variety of cheap stuff to people that otherwise wouldn't have a wide variety or cheap stuff. WM's logistical beast is able to bring more stuff to more people at a lower price than most of their competitors and for this reason it finds itself in a situation where it is the only game in many towns. And yet they don't charge people outrageous prices or turn the town folk into slaves. In fact they do everything possible to keep their prices low and satisfy consumers.

[linnea]

I was using it as a counter-example of the nightmare presented by LFM. Wal-mart provides a wide variety of cheap stuff to people that otherwise wouldn't have a wide variety or cheap stuff. WM's logistical beast is able to bring more stuff to more people at a lower price than most of their competitors and for this reason it finds itself in a situation where it is the only game in many towns. And yet they don't charge people outrageous prices or turn the town folk into slaves. In fact they do everything possible to keep their prices low and satisfy consumers.

A-CAP, everything you say just sounds like "WANK WANK WANK".

[Arachno-capitalist]

A-CAP, everything you say just sounds like "WANK WANK WANK".

Wow. Just... wow.

[AugustWest]

A-CAP, I gotta say I'm glad you're around.  Since AlohaDawg hasn't been around the minority view hasn't been voiced much around here.  I may not agree with your political views, but I'm glad you're here spouting them off.

Now, how do you feel about eating babies?

[Sub_Topical]

I'm just intrigued by the idea that redistricting courts could have some significant effect.

California example: Voters districts or precincts are redrawn by the state assembly which results in a winner's get the spoils drawing of borders. This has spawned a plethora of convoluted districts often segmenting homogenous areas along party lines. The end result is a bunch of disticts that are modeled to be 'safe' for one major party or the other. It's hard as dickens to have anysort of open competition or to shoehorn any sort of dynamic churn when the precincts are so ideologically stratified. I'd like to see redistricting run on strict contiguos geographical and population method with a third party drawing the lines, which is why I chuck the judiciary at it. Hell, I'd make it a Cali Supremes (sounds like a fast food item) issue.

My thinking is that with honest districting we're likely to have more areas in which, instead of pandering to only the base, canidates will have to tailor a message and agenda that is more issue driven and addresses the real concerns of the community. I'd love to see these people forced to commit to positions and actual agendas and have to convince the swayable middle why their shit is the least smelly, as opposed to the current play amongst ouselves setup. I think redistricting, term limits and campaign finance controls would go a long ways into delivering more ideas and commitments into the political anointment.

I haven't solved the accountability issue yet as that has to be driven by the populace. I try to do my part by being a shit-stirrer and writing editorial replies and direct contact with representatives offices. Every now and then I'll show up at a meeting for open mike time and air out some concerns.

[Sub_Topical]

Now, how do you feel about eating babies?

No No, Nabu's got that covered!