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[Arachno-capitalist]

Definitions of  prolix on the Web:

    * tediously prolonged or tending to speak or write at great length; "editing a prolix manuscript"; "a prolix lecturer telling you more than you want to know"
      wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

LFM. Learn what google is. Learn how to use google.
The web address is http://www.google.com

[littlefallsmets]

Oh. Gotcha.

There is no doubt I have a tendency for being long-winded and rambling.

It comes from a desire to not be misunderstood or misconstrued. I have this subconscious drive to lay out every different permutation and nuance of what I am trying to say, so as to not be taken out of context, on accident or purpose.

I'll try to keep an eye on that in these parts, if people aren't digging on it.

[jaydub]

Don't bother me, none.  I enjoy a well turned phrase.  There's a talk show host out here on the Left Coast named Gene Burns (who has also spent time in Florida and Massachussets IIRC) who is particularly erudite.  To pick up an earlier thread, think of a less pretentious Charles Winchester with a more general American accent.  But that level of precision, and (dare I mention it) well executed Latin syntax to his English.

[AugustWest]

I'll try to keep an eye on that in these parts, if people aren't digging on it.

Nah, don't change.  I'm just yanking your chain.

[littlefallsmets]

Nah, don't change.  I'm just yanking your chain.

Which is much better than being pegged, definitely.

[Nabubrush]

But... I'd also really like to be able to move a penny with my mind. I'd do it for hours as a kid, just concentrating on a penny, convinced that I could be telekinetic (at least a little bit) if I just put my mind to it. From time to time, even as an adult, I'll try it for a minute or two.

It's never happened. It's never gonna happen. Maybe one or two people CAN do it, for all I know. But that's immaterial. I ain't never gonna move that penny with my mind, all the free will, all the positive thinking and boot-straps and hands-up-not-hand-outs in the world...

That penny ain't doing shit.

Similarly, I'm never gonna get that time machine working so that I can fuck Sophia Loren when she was in her early thirties. Been working on that goddamn thing ever since I found out about that whole "putting your c*ck inside pretty ladies" deal back around twelve.

fuck*ng quitter.

[pmcd9]

LFM, August just wanted to say prollix.

[AugustWest]

LFM, August just wanted to say prollix.

Busted!

[littlefallsmets]

Well, my point is that... that middle ground of people just wanting to have a house and get their kids through college and retire to a place where nurses won't steal their medication... shrinks and shrinks as capitalism is less and less fettered.

And that middle ground doesn't shrink because they're joining The Gods behind their gated communities, they join the masses just scraping on by.

My major argument is that purer and purer forms of free-market don't actually aid the vast majority of Americans, they ultimately shrink the middle classes and make the working and destitute classes's situations much more dire... while concentrating the wealth of the upper classes and a few lottery winners from the underclass who can Sing Really Well or Throw A Football or so on.

Perhaps I'm assailable on the fact that I exaggerate a bit as I ramble but... that trend is what it clearly happening and... it is my belief that preventing and reversing that effect is more important to the people and the stability of our country than across-the-board-and-in-all-cases protecting the free will of those born into privilege or the arbitrary few who stumble into it.

Most of us aren't and most of us won't. Building the system to protect those who are and do makes no sense to me. And, as I say, I don't believe that pure socialism would work any better than pure capitalism...

My belief is that we need a mix of economic models that have worked best in a number of cases and... we are imbalanced toward one direction and becoming more unbalanced in that direction.

However, I would never hold liking to use big words against anyone.

I dig using LOTS of words and that's at least as bad as big words, if not worse.

[Arachno-capitalist]

So the difference between Marx's view of capitalism and your view of capitalism is that you think the bottom class will never have the wherewithall to get itself together? You just think the middle and working classes are so dumb they'll just cede power to the Waldens?

[littlefallsmets]

Well, as a humanist before any kind of other -ist, I recognize that a violent uprising by the suppressed classes could only end up as Bad Times. I am pretty much Batman on the idea of people rising up with guns and killing until there ain't no plutocrats left to run the country. We've seen that movie, we know what happens. It sucks.

So I'd like to not see things get to that point. I don't doubt the eventual inevitability of that scenario if that happens but that solution to the problem is at least as bad as the problem if not flat-out worse.

I reject allowing it to get to the point of Violent Revolt because I reject killin' on principle. I reject killin' as anything other than direct self-defense as probably my first law of Mikebotics. "Rule One, don't kill anyone unless it's the only way to prevent being killed, all other rules are superceded by this rule."

The difficulty with the current American model is that... the underprivileged classes are functioning within a media and culture landscape that seems structured completely toward enforcing the idea that... if you are not rich, it is Your Fault and you are Bad For Not Being Rich. Worship the rich and protect them because, who knows, there is a very small chance you could be one of them some day!

Whether by ignorance or by conspiracy (more ignorance than anything but probably a little conspiracy, too) the whole deal is rigged to lay out the idea that the needs of the many don't mean shit, it is your job to try and grab what you can for yourself.

Cultural hegemony is completely different than in The Flawed-But-Well-Meaning Mr. Marx's day.

The whole deal is rigged against people seeing the peaceful path toward raising nearly everyone up to perpetuate the current situation. I have the nasty fear that by the time people see what's actually going on, violent revolt will be the only way out.

I do not dig that scenario. At all.

[Teatime]

I am pretty much Batman. I do not dig [this] scenario at all.

I can not imagine a more effective way to end an argument.

[Fooker]

If it's Hillary VS Guiliani, I'm voting for Hillary and will in fact actively campaign for her.

My theory is that I might as well do my part to run everything into the ground so that I'm still around to work things back together when they're being rebuilt, instead of just fudging things off for my children's children to get stuck with.

Basically I want to either put someone in power who will try to make a socialist power grab, or do something about fixing our southern border and work on from there.

Illegal immigration is killing our country, guys. Why do you think this mortgage bailout is being pushed so hard? So that it can be done before the general populace figures out that it was because of loans being made to "undocumented immigrants" and runs riot.* Not to mention that our social services get fucked, our citizens living on the border get their property fucked, etc. It doesn't help that Jorge Bush has his lips pressed firmly to Mexico's ass and hates everyone who might do such a thing as patrol their own property (OH NO, vigilantes!). But this is because our polichickens are scared shitless of having a revolution in mexico, so they allow our country to be used as a pressure release valve, and big business loves it. The rest of us get stuck with illegals "commiting the crimes that ordinary americans don't want to commit."

I am probably horribly off topic now, but this is our biggest issue. We can't fix half of our shit without dealing with this. It affects so many things.

*Sadly, our chances for a popular uprising are slim as long as the only people with M249s and M4s are a) rich, monopolistic C3 dealers, b) government thugs or c) soldiers, and as long as the food distribution and Nascar and NFL keep running.

[Alternate]

Does anyone think Obama or Clinton will actually get the nomination?
They say a lot of things that liberal democrats love to hear but will the democrats risk such an important election by trying to make history?

Just curious -- why do you consider those candidates risky for the democrats?  Are there democrats running who you would consider less risky? 

[Nabubrush]

Just curious -- why do you consider those candidates risky for the democrats?  Are there democrats running who you would consider less risky? 

We TALKED about this!