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[jough]

WARNING: The following isn't really amusing or light, so if you're just here for the funny, you may want to not read this thread.

I guess there's no other way to say this: I'm dying.

I haven't contracted any diseases (well, I have, actually, but that's not what's killing me) or sustained any life-threatening injuries.  I'm dying of basic physical neglect, a sedentary lifestyle, and something that seems to make people laugh, because looking at me you'd never think this would be a problem, but I'm suffering from malnutrition.

Basically I am beyond ridiculously overweight, I get little exercise, when I do try to exercise I have Problems and have to recuperate for a good week sometimes (physically my feet and ankles can not take much strain, which putting nearly 400lbs on them offers), and basically given the nutritional content of the foods I am eating (lots of prepared stuff, wherein I'd get more nutrition from eating the packaging, or else meat-centric meals that I cook myself) I am unlikely to see 2007 if I don't do something about this now.

I'm having trouble breathing, my heart hurts when I so something like eat pasta, and I'm tired all the dang time.

It may already be too late.  I'm not sure if I'm past the point of no return health-wise yet, but fuck, I'm only 30 years old and even introducing more healthy things into my diet and eating much less than I used to isn't doing anything to help my health.

Lately I've been taking brief walks.  How brief?  The first day I started out on a very slow five minute walk... around the half-block of my street, out the back door, around half a block (my house is in the middle of the block, too, so it's really only about 1/4 of a block) and then in the front door.  I did that every day for a week until I could do it in three instead of five minutes.

Now that it's getting hotter it's making being outdoors even less pleasant.  If you want to try out my day, try breathing through a very thick piece of cloth while walking up a flight of stairs with only an extra 100 pounds on you (rather than the excess of 200+ that I'm carrying) and wearing not a couple of winter coats.  When you're done you'll probably still feel better than I do.

Anyway, I'm kind of not sure what the hell to do.  I need to find a way of eating that isn't a diet (i.e. short term eating things that I hate that feels like punishment) because even if I can keep it up for a short time, what then?  I don't want to be back in the situation of eating pizza as a reward for doing so well with my weight loss, because, you know, I've earned it.

Also, at this point, weight loss isn't my primary goal.  I imagine that by eating healthily and exercising that I will probably lose weight.  I also believe in SCIENCE and the whole "Calories In < Calories Out = Weight Loss" so I'll try to count calories, although that sounds like a chore that I'll only keep up with for a few weeks too.  Surely there's a web site or software that can help keep track of calories or plan meals.  If anyone knows of one please suggest.

Has anyone here lost weight and managed to keep it off?  The nutritionist I've talked to has always been thin and healthy and doesn't seem to understand what life as a fat guy is like.

Anyway, expect that I'll be both posting and reading less here, or at least about as little as I have been this past month.  It's not because I don't enjoy interacting with you good people, it's just because between work and ill health I'm having to spend less time sitting in this chair whenever possible.

[JorgeFabregas]

Jough, I like the Calorie King software. http://www.calorieking.com/software/ I believe it has a free trial. I think most of us could stand a little less time at the computer.

[wombat]

I know that maybe this isn't going to sound helpful since as I recall you don't have health insurance, but how much have you talked to a doctor? Maybe you need a new one?  Like one who can refer you to a fatter nutrionist if such a thing exists.

I have a friend who lost probably at least a hundred pounds and kept it off for a while but not forever. My observation is that it had a lot to do with increased exercise.  She went to the gym A LOT.  You would obviously need to do this starting slowly, under supervision.  Gyms are air conditioned, at least, so the weather is not a problem.

We once had a conversation in which we concluded that the time and attention you have to invest in losing that amount of weight was, if not a second job, at least a very serious hobby, for which you have to give up many other spare-time activities. (Although you'd think by now they'd have invented exercise bikes with internet access - beats watching TV while you exercise.)  And in fact she gained most of the weight back when she went to law school and no longer had time for a serious second-job-like hobby.

But, she also was a vegetarian at the time and ate a lot of baby carrots for snacks, so obviously the food thing matters too.  Also, I am an imaginary person on the internet, only one step up from a cartoon cat giving advice.  You should see a professional.

[misterqueue]

That's not even rough chuckles.

I have some gravity, not nearly what you're carrying but I could stand to lose a few.  The success I have had is insane amounts of walking and calorie counting.   The number varies but the average human male requires 1800 calories a day for basic body things (heartbeats, breathing, etc.).  Any movement you do beyond that burns calories.  So, by extension, figure out what you're taking in and limit that.  (I went a little insane when i started dropping pounds and went waaaay too low...)

I did that and walked and it was relatively easy for me to keep up and count (and I'm notoriously lazy/procrastinatory).  Then again, I've never really been in your shoes so I don't know. 

Good luck, and keep yourself healthy man.  Lawd knows we can't have you dying on us and all.

[AugustWest]

I second Wombat's "Talk to your Doctor" advice.  That should be step one.

I am a dude of gravity too, and I'm fighting it.  I've done it off and on for years, and I guess I'm in one of my on cycles.  I feel like this one is more likely to be permanent than any before.  Here's what I'm doing:

I exercise.  I made some subtle changes to my diet and lifestyle and one big one.  I try to be more conscious of what I eat.

Exercise:  I swim.  I can't recommend this enough.  I understand about your ankles, only with me it's my knees.  I fucked them up as a kid and now they'll hurt me the rest of my life.  Swimming removes knee pain from the equation.  It's easy on the joints and good aerobic exercise.  Also, lap swimming has turned out to an oddly contemplative, meditative activity.  I've been doing it since the first of the year and I'm seeing results, slowly but surely.  Exercise is also hugely important to your mental and emotional state.  But it takes a while to get into.  Don't give up.

Changes:  I try to eat better.  Less red meat.  Less trans-fat.  More veggies (though that's not really a problem for me.)  I try to eat oatmeal almost every day.  And the big change:  I quit drinking.  It's been about two months now since I've had a drink.   My habits were starting to worry me a little, but as a practical matter it was a huge amount of unnecessary calories I was taking in.

Finally, consciousness.  I love to cook and eat.  It's a family hobby, almost a religion.  If I let me stomach think for me, I eat all the time and I eat stuff that's bad for me.  I'm trying to be more conscious of what and how much I'm eating.  This is the hardest part for me.

I feel for you, cuz.  I'm happy to listen or talk about it anytime you want.

[jough]

Most of the people in my immediate family are overweight to obese.  Most of my friends are thin (if not healthy necessarily) and have never been overweight.  So their support is of course nice but not very helpful.  Most diet advice I get is from my grandmother who has been overweight for her entire adult life.  Asking her "Oh, is that what you did to get so svelte?" doesn't help.

I think (hope) that I can turn this around.  It's been an off and on thing for years with me, so I don't think a diet is going to help.  I have to make some major lifestyle changes or I'll never be able to lick this.

One of the books I'm reading (by Gov. Huckabee of Ark.) has a quote in it that sounds like a good mantra to repeat to myself, "Nothing ever tastes as good as being thin feels."

My short term goal is of course to be able to breathe normally when I am not doing any exercise.  As it is I am out of breath all the dang time.  Yes, I have respiratory problems, too, and sleep apnea.  My slightly longer term goal is to be able to breathe while walking without having to stop to catch my breath, and then maybe even be able to walk and talk at the same time.

Yeah, I'm doing that poorly.  It was a gradual thing, where about two years ago I started to not breathe as well, and lately the decline has been fast and steady.  Since around the turn of the new year my breathing problems have gotten much worse.

[jough]

Oh, and while I don't have health insurance, I am going to see a new doctor next week.  The current guy is way too flip about my health to be of any use to me anymore. "Try walking an hour a day." "Um, I'm having trouble breathing just sitting here."  "Oh.  Well I guess you'll have to lose weight before you can exercise."  "Um, what do you suggest?" "Here's a referral for a nutritionist."

I will see a nutritionist because I need a PLAN about how and what I'm going to eat, how often, and I know enough to know that I am incapable of making the decision about how much is enough to eat, so I would like to do this scientifically where I just measure out my intake and plan.  I also want some healthy backup when I've eaten all that I am able (via science) and am still hungry or at least wanting to put more food into my mouth.

I mean, I'm a fat guy.  I am pretty much never actually hungry.  But I often want to eat.

And to dispel another fat guy myth - I eat much much less than my thin friends do.  And sometimes even eat healthier things than they do.  But usually I eat things that have pretty much no nutritional content.  I was dismayed to find that boneless chicken breast, the most innocuous of meat, is really not that good for you.  It's not AS bad as red meat, and it does contain protein and stuff, but it's not really "healthy."  This probably comes as a shock to no one else, but I couldn't believe it.

[wombat]

I am relieved to hear you are going to see a doctor. Also you should go back one more time to the old doctor and punch him out.  Or sit on him.

Metabolism is not fair. Or other things about our bodies.  I am a very short person, so I have less acreage on which to store spare fat.  Yet, other things about the world remain constant, so that it is still twice as much pleasure for me to eat a quantity of ice cream which lasts five minutes as to eat one that lasts two and a half minutes. I do not perceive that situation differently than a tall skinny person. It is not fair that the tall skinny person can eat more than I can.  But that's life.

One thing I have noted about eating habits is that food cravings are more malleable than you might except.  Like if you force yourself to get into the habit of eating a piece of fruit after dinner instead of ice cream, it seems like deprivation at first.  But after a while, you find yourself craving fruit.  A whole lot of it is just what's habitual.

But the other thing is, like the nutritionists are always harping on:  Portion size.  I don't think it's feasible to ask a person to give up pizza for the rest of your life.  But, it is perfectly reasonable to tell you to eat two pieces rather than four.  And, like Aug says, consciousness.  Pay attention to those two pieces - don't be reading and talking and watching TV at the same time you are eating them - and it's more likely that two pieces will be enough.

[side_show]

Hey jough - that hard up sucks the big cock, and I'm basically right there with you.  

If it makes you feel any better, all the medical types have finally come to agreement and I found out on Monday that I am not dying but that I have osteoarthritis with non-specific rheumatoid symptoms.  It is a degenerative thing, and X-rays as early as from when I was 16 already showed that parts of my spine are wearing down, and the pain in my hips, knees and feet are such that sometimes walking is hard already.  This basically means I am on the road to becoming crippled, and already far down the road to living the rest of my life with chronic pain.  The disease has had a very early on-set in me as most people get diagnosed in their late 30's - 60's, so the overall prognosis is not good.  On top of all this, I already have another autoimmune disease which requires constant monitoring.  I've spent a few days imagining my future in a wheelchair... Also I've been put on some terrifying medication that is meant to alter my brain chemistry to force to into deep sleep.  Apparently even though I live day to day without taking pain killers (I am apparently insane to do this), when I sleep my level of pain is so high that it's probably interrupting my ability to get into REM state.  

Sooo, after taking a few days to mourn the things that are the way they are, I've come to the conclusion that all I have is now, that right now isn't so bad, and that I want as much of right now as possible.  This means creating an action plan.  After the past 6 months of being in and out of doctors offices, thinking that I might be dying, I'd basically given up on healthy living.  Exercising wasn't an option because I basically have the energy to work and sleep.  Eating healthfully wasn't an option, again, because I don't have the energy to do it.  But now I've cleared my schedule and there's no more excuses.  At this point, I basically have about 75 pounds that I could lose, and I basically need to do it to push the date where I surrender to being wheelchair bound farther into the future.  I know 75 pounds is less than what you're looking at, but it ain't a small number either.

I made the decision the day of my diagnosis to make my health my main job.  My number one priority.  I gave up directing my next project (many tears), turned down some other serious opportunities, and basically cleared my schedule for the next three months.  I have to work half days in June here at the office, but for July and August the only thing I will be doing is bettering myself.  It's not going to be easy financially, but I don't really care at this point.

Like you, I know that diets are pointless.  We're both smart enough to know what's bad: prepaired, high fat foods, and what's good: fruits and veggies, whole grains, lean proteins, etc.  And there's no point in flushing money down Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig's toilet.  So I went here: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide-aliment/fg_rainbow-arc_en_ciel_ga_e.html (I'm sure your country has a similar guide) to get the actual numbers for servings and portions and recommended exercise.  I put it into chart form, printed out weekly copies for the next three months, and have this week magnetized to the fridge.  And in fact today is my start date.  June 1st.  So far, I've taken an hour walk to work and I've eaten a bran bar and an apple - a check under grains, a check under fruits and veggies and a check under endurance exercise.  I basically have no interest in counting calories.  For me it's all about avoiding the fatty and pre-prepaired foods and proper portion controle.  I know that if I get in 5 fruits and veggies a day, five servings of grains and deal with proper portion controle for the other stuff - that I'll be full and I'll be on my way to a healthy weight.

The other big thing is exercise and mobility.  As for your exercise struggles, all I can tell you is that I am in severe pain most of the time, but that I'm up for the challenge now that I see that wheelchair in my head, so maybe now if you're seeing a tombstone in your head, you've got the impetus to suffer for the greater good.  Even though I'm super embarrassed, I'm going to be joining up an aqua-aerobics classes at the YMCA.  It'll be me and 10 old ladies in a pool.  Basically, if you're carrying around too much weight or have pain issues, water exercise is your friend - this is what many a doctor has told me.  More than anything else, the YMCA is a major tool for me, and maybe something you might want to consider.  Check out if your local Y has a pool or elliptical trainers .  An elliptical trainer will be your best friend - it's a no impact workout, but you can work as hard or as gentle as you want to without hurting your ankles or other joints.  Even though almost every joint from my lower spine down is degraded and painful, I can usually go for 30 minutes on an elliptical trainer with no serious pain.  

Finally, healthy competition, for me is a really good motivator.  Do you want to join me in a competition of some sort?  I am all over making some sort of friendly wager... let say, we both set a reasonable (nothing to easy, nothing too hard, approved by the other person) weight loss/ fitness goal for September, and the loser has to donate $50 to a charity of the winner's choosing?  If you are the winner it would be fine with me that my donation go to this board, and if I am the winner, I'd like to send the $50 to arthritis research.  What do you say?  I'd even invite other board members to bet on us if you're up for it.  I'd even do the unlady-like thing of revealing my current weight to the entire board if it was necessary.  I can't get too skinny though - the SO would be mad if I lose my giant boobs.

We can do it man, come on!  

[wombat]

Smells - speaking from my experience of losing a fair amount of weight (in both instances from being ill, which is a technique I do not recommend), the boobs are the last to go.  I was a little cross about this - it turned out that it was no easier for me to buy clothes when I was skinnier, because I was still the same, apparently abnormal, shape - but on the other hand it's one more reason not to regret being a size 8 or whatever.

Good luck to both of you.  I am expecting soon to be unemployed again and therefore not on my feet charging around six or seven hours a day so I am going to have to start watching my intake more also.  When I want to whine about it I will think of you.

[Hobot]

Smells, the bet sounds like a fantastic idea.  Count me in.  I did a similar sort of thing with an ex (we both had a habit we wanted to be rid of), and it worked really well; the mutual support is essential and incredibly helpful to get one motivated.

Take care, and best of luck to both of you; you'll be in my agnostic thoughts.

[jough]

Smells, I'll take you up on that bet, although I'll have to wait until next week to post my current weight because, um, the big doctor's scale that I have at home can no longer weigh me (it goes up to 350lbs).  However, weight loss is not my primary goal.  Getting healthy is.  So I'm trying to measure things like cholesterol and blood pressure, resting heart beat, ability to breathe while doing simple things like sitting, etc.  I've tried to lose XX number of pounds before and it's pretty discouraging after the first couple of weeks where you drop a lot of fluid and stuff.

Plus, I will be doing some moderate weight training (starting out with just the bar with no weights on it at first) and eventually hope to build up some muscle again (also known as: the body's fat burning engine).

Also, I would have donations go to breast cancer research, since it has claimed the lives of too many that I love.

It is good to have a support system, even if just from strangers on the internet.

I'm also thinking of maybe starting a health blog just to record my progress or lack thereof, perhaps with posting what I eat every day and how much I've exercised, etc.  Maybe the weight (excuse the pun) of publication will help keep me on track, too.  Anything that helps I'll try.

[Hobot]

Jough, the blog also sounds like a great idea, for the very reason you cited: the self-imposed pressure that arises from the knowledge that others are checking your progress will motivate you to stay on track.  Even if you have trouble eating healthily and exercising for yourself, the feeling that you are doing it for, and maybe even inspiring, other people will immeasurably help you.  Additionally, the visible record of your progress will solidify your determination by demonstrating how far you have come.

Wow, sorry to get all motivational speaker-ish.  You can do it, man!

[wombat]

Jough, the blog is a great idea because I fully expect you will find a way to make it entertaining.  Although I will put aside the selgiraffe considerations for a moment to point out that typing a blog is not good exercise so it would best not get out of hand.  But see, you can compose entertaining blog posts in your head while doing mindless boring exercise and then type them quickly afterwards.  We all win.

[wombat]

Oh, and about boneless chicken breast:  It is a bad diet food because even if it were good for you, it tastes like shit and will not leave you satisfied.  All meat, including chicken, tastes better when cooked with the bones in.  And if you want to skip eating the skin, fine, but leaving it on during will keep the meat from getting dried out.  And if a little fat from the skin ends up on your chicken, that's still better than the bag of chips that you'll eat after having a shitty boneless chicken breast for dinner.