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[KeithHernandez]

The book was incredible.  I haven't seen the film yet.

Man, they are playing it in malls in Oklahoma, I figured they would be playing it everwhere.

[side_show]

**Clerks II SPOILER ALERT**

I saw it on Saturday.

Jough, I have to agree with you, the song and dance routine was lovely, the go cart thing went on way, way too long, and if you think the donkey scene was a little too much, try watching it while sitting next to your buddy's mother.  That was so awkward...

Anyway, I did enjoy it over all, and was genuinely touched by the final ode to friendship at the end.  The laughs were good, and I enjoyed the Jay and Silent Bob stuff to a point. 

I was a little bothered at the whole "it's okay to cheat if the other relationship was meant to be" message.  In reality, a relationship built on infidelity is never one that equates to a happy ending/foundation to build your life/future on.  I don't remember enough of the first Clerks movie to remember if his fiance was referred to in the first one, so maybe it was pre-established elsewhere that she was a horrible bitch, but in this film, there was some serious glossing over of the whole issue of cheating... Yeah, she was a little controlling, but otherwise not horrible, and seemed to be genuinely in love with Dante, and she was just sort of written off after running of crying, basically pretty horribly "punished" for doing nothing wrong.  What, she's evil because Randell doesn't like her/ is jealous of her usurping him?  Isn't it's Dante's job to fix this instead of choosing between them?  I kind of expected this to be the rub of the film.  But instead none of this happens and Dante comes off a a noble guy somehow...  He sees the girl in the window wave at him (so obviously and distractingly Kevin Smith's daughter) and it's sort of implied he's making the "noble" choice to be a man/father... It's all a little too easy, is all I'm saying.  He hasn't earned the happy ending Smith gives him, so for me Dante came off more as lazy, staying in his comfy little niche, and giving in to the easy road... which is sort of the opposite of what Smith was obviously going for.  This is made all even more fucked up, in that Smith cast his own wife as Dante's fiance.  WTF?

I seem to remember this as being recurring in other Kevin Smith movies.  I remember one of my friends was really pissed off after seeing... I think it was Chasing Amy?.. that infidelity = okay in another Kevin Smith Film... and wasn't this along the same lines in the first Clerks?... it's all pretty hazy to me.  I haven't seen his other movies in years, and they don't really stick with me as anything but episodically enjoyable moments, loosely strung together to make the funny.

But if I don't look at the underlying message of the film... I enjoyed it, it was good fun, and true to the original.  Basically episodically enjoyable moments, loosely and questionably strung together to make the funny.

[Dr. Sodomy]

Dante's always been sort of a pusharound. Why would he have been friends with Randal for so long?

I think that the movie implies that you've got to make yourself happy. Sometimes personal happiness involves breaking someone's heart for what seems like unexplainable reasons.

[theinevitable]

"do whatever the hell you want to make yourself happy! yay!"

the fact that the dude who has done bad things to me is a big Kevin Smith fan makes everything clear, suddenly.

[Mite]

So Kevin Smith is an objectivist?

[jough]

Isn't Smith's next project the film version of The Fountainhead?

However, I don't think the message here is "Do what makes you happy, even if it hurts some people." but rather "Hurt some people because it makes you happy to do so."

[Lister]

Hurting Paris Hilton would make me happy.  I should do this and blame Kevin Smith, then be viewed as a martyr by a grateful world.

[jough]

That's the spirit.

[Dr. Sodomy]

However, I don't think the message here is "Do what makes you happy, even if it hurts some people." but rather "Hurt some people because it makes you happy to do so."

So, is the movie good b/c it's funny, or bad b/c of a questionable underlying theme? Also, what about the porch monkey scene?

[jough]

The movie is good because it is funny, but bad because it is shallow.

Smith was never one of the great thinkers in cinema.  His skill is in dick and fart jokes.

[side_show]

Yeah, what jough said.

What it comes down to for Clerks II is it's really good when it comes to the comedy, and not so good when it comes to the over-arching storyline's supposed deep meaning.  If you examine the story arch it self, it sort of falls short of good storytelling, but the humour hits the mark quite well.  Basically, enjoy it for it's surface value.  Clerks II is the comedy equivlent of going out on a date with an extremely attractive stranger who never gets a second date.

As for the Porch Monkey thing - it was enjoyable, but gets a little run-in-to-the-ground.

[slink]

So, is the movie good b/c it's funny, or bad b/c of a questionable underlying theme? Also, what about the porch monkey scene?

The porch monkey scene is one of the funniest things I have seen in a film in a long time, I must admit. Probably because I saw it with my friend, and the pair of us are constantly having conversations as tasteless as that.
I did really enjoy it, because it was funny. It was nice to see Smith can write again, although it was as if instead of ripping off John Hughes now, he goes for ripping off South Park.
It's also worth it for the number of people who seemed to have been brought along and weren't remotely getting it.

stupid laptop keyboard