Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

@achewood Chris Onstad does not wear makeup. Life hasn't given him any funny ideas about who he is.

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit  (Read 6907 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

linnea

  • VIP
  • Ocular Shenanigans
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 168
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3332
    • View Profile
Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« on: June 25, 2007, 10:52:20 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6238672.stm

Quote from: BBC News
A former high school student has lost his case in what is the US Supreme Court's first major ruling on students' free speech rights in almost 20 years.

At issue was whether a school principal violated a student's right to free speech by suspending him for displaying a banner reading "Bong Hits 4 Jesus".

Joseph Frederick unfurled the banner near to his school as the Olympic flame passed through Juneau, Alaska, in 2002.

The Supreme Court justices ruled by 5-4 that his rights were not violated.

Chief Justice John Roberts said in a written ruling that schools may prohibit student expression that can be interpreted as advocating the use of drugs.

Mr Frederick, 18 at the time, said the words on his 14ft (4.26m) banner did not relate to drug use and were meant to be funny in an attempt to get on television.

Head teacher Deborah Morse, who destroyed Mr Frederick's banner and suspended him for 10 days, argued that the banner's message went against the school's anti-drugs policy and was unfurled during a school event to watch the flame pass.

A bong is a type of water pipe that can be used to smoke marijuana.

Bush's backing


The Supreme Court's ruling has tightened limits on students' rights to free speech at school events.

Chief Justice Roberts wrote: "The message on Frederick's banner is cryptic. But Principal Morse thought the banner would be interpreted by those viewing it as promoting illegal drug use, and that interpretation is plainly a reasonable one."

The court found that schools "may take steps to safeguard those entrusted to their care from speech that can reasonably be regarded as encouraging illegal drug use".

This meant Mr Frederick's constitutional free speech rights were not violated by the confiscation of his banner and his suspension, Chief Justice Roberts concluded.

Justice John Paul Stevens was among the four justices who dissented on the ruling.

He wrote: "Although this case began with a silly nonsensical banner, it ends with the court inventing out of whole cloth a special First Amendment rule permitting the censorship of any student speech that mentions drugs."

Ms Morse and the Juneau school board were supported by the Bush administration, which wanted a broad rule that public schools do not have to tolerate speech that disrupts their basic educational mission.

Vietnam precedent

Mr Frederick, now 23 and studying and teaching in China, was backed in the case by the American Civil Liberties Union and the American Center for Law and Justice.

He was also supported by conservative groups
concerned that a ruling against him could allow schools to limit students' expression of religious views, particularly on the issues of abortion and homosexuality.

Mr Frederick's lawyer, Douglas Mertz, argued that the court should stand by its 1969 ruling that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate".

In that case, at the height of the Vietnam War, the Supreme Court decided in favour of students who wanted to wear black armbands in class to protest against the war.

But the court ruled in the late 1980s that a student did not have the right to give a sexually-suggestive speech at a school assembly and that school newspapers could be censored.

I've followed this case with interest since I heard that he was taking it to the Supreme Court. The ACLU has backed some pretty shocking cases, but I was very surprised that conservative groups would get on board with the "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" kid.

I guess I'm just surprised that this kid was standing up for nothing. Sure, he wanted to get on TV and so he somehow conceived of "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" as the most offensive, crazy statement that might get posted on FOX News. He didn't even try to brook his shocking message with something about how medicinal marijuana was needed for terminally ill patients, he stated that his goal was to get on the news. I was surprised that his attorney would try to liken his case to the Vietnam War protesters. They were standing up during a dangerous time with a political message.

Do you party people think that the court ruling was justified? After reviewing the news coverage and thinking about it, I really can't have sympathy for the kid. If he had something like, "Stop the war" or some type of message that was constructive (i.e., working towards a cause) rather than cryptic nonsense...well, I could get behind that. I guess that he just didn't have any cause that he felt strongly about, other than a desire for 15 minutes of fame?
Logged

wombat

  • English-Speaking Pizza
  • Mod Squad
  • Dude since Knucklehead times
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 644
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12493
  • Yeah man, these are pugs, not some fuck*ng lolcat.
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2007, 11:16:35 pm »

Even if he didn't do a very good job of it, he claims he was trying to be funny, and free speech rights for humor seems like a pretty important cause to me. 
Logged
What is this, the fuckin' Algonquin Round Table or some shit?  - Nabu

If you're going to change your life then you have to change it every day, not just the days the world isn't taking a shit on you. -Doc

CortJstr

  • Mod Squad
  • Philippe is standing on it
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 338
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9820
  • Which gives us AN EXCUSE TO DRINK!
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2007, 11:24:31 pm »

Well, considering that the court has already ruled that all people on school property, regardless of age and whether school is in session, immediately sacrifice amendments 1, 2, and 4 I'm not surprised.

Hell, 4 or 5 years ago it wasn't uncommon to read about kids who were suspended for stuff they put on their personal websites or blogs using their home computers. I'm pretty sure one kid was banned from graduation for shit he said about the principal in his blog, which he never even acesssed with school resources.
Logged

Doc

  • Growing Cucumbers of Impressive Dimensions
  • Writer's Workshoppers
  • Philippe is standing on it.
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1408
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5017
  • an emergency backup pug
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2007, 03:04:22 am »

Yeah free speech is great but I've always considered that if you're in a school or business etc. than the people running that business can kick you out for whatever reason they please. That said some people need to lighten up. Was it a public or private school? That would obviously blur the lines a bit.
Logged
Inev: 'A lot of things are ridiculous if you think about them long enough, you know?'

KeithHernandez

  • Writer's Workshoppers
  • Ocular Shenanigans
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1014
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • I am, again, Keith Hernandez
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2007, 03:50:56 am »

Well, he was not standing on school grounds.

If more people took bong hits there wouldn't be a war.

Logged
You say one day soon we will all stand as brothers, 'til then I guess we'll just stand around.

Ruta Bagas

  • Dr. Andretti
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 108
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 426
  • Is that a shiny ring?
    • View Profile
    • The World Is Lovely
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2007, 10:51:01 am »

It was apparently a school-organised event, though, so, y'know, thorny.

I am of the opinion that a school should be able to put a stop to acts that unnecessarily disrupt classes et cetera, and that, practically, that has to include stuff like this. Whether that should be the case at an event like this I can't really say based on the information here; either way, though, suspending him for it seems unduly harsh. Suspension seems to be bandied about an awful lot these days.

More generally, I cannot begin to formulate a coherent notion of how freedom of speech ought to work, because I've not yet successfully married by firm belief in its vital importance with the fact that speech and expression aren't as divorced from the world of action as people often like to think.

Ooh, this reminds me, I read a disgusting letter in a paper a few weeks ago, baldly asserting that "freedom of speech is not freedom to offend". It troubles me that people can be quite that foolish.

KeithHernandez

  • Writer's Workshoppers
  • Ocular Shenanigans
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1014
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • I am, again, Keith Hernandez
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2007, 11:22:50 am »

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with this at all, just saying that in the situation (watching an olympic torch) that isn't really harmful to "learning".

I am mainly opposed to the fact you lose your 4th amendment rights on school grounds.  But it is all really the same thing.  If we are free, we should be free in government buildings we are forced to go to.

Even if we allow for lose of rights at school, f they force you to go to rallys/ minor league baseball games (my own experience) the behavior should not be held up to classroom standards.  Come On! (G.O.B. Style) They are at a fuck*ng rally, not school.  If it was a musuem that might be different. 
Logged
You say one day soon we will all stand as brothers, 'til then I guess we'll just stand around.

wombat

  • English-Speaking Pizza
  • Mod Squad
  • Dude since Knucklehead times
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 644
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12493
  • Yeah man, these are pugs, not some fuck*ng lolcat.
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2007, 01:24:07 pm »

I was listening to some coverage of this this morning and realized that the main point is summed up by the quote from Justice Stevens above. Did the Founding Fathers even have bongs?  There wasn't even a public education system at the time. So it's pretty wild to think there's a constitutional basis to say anything specifically about student speech about drugs.

Basically I am thinking now that this is pretty creepy.
Logged
What is this, the fuckin' Algonquin Round Table or some shit?  - Nabu

If you're going to change your life then you have to change it every day, not just the days the world isn't taking a shit on you. -Doc

CortJstr

  • Mod Squad
  • Philippe is standing on it
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 338
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9820
  • Which gives us AN EXCUSE TO DRINK!
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2007, 01:26:43 pm »

I am mainly opposed to the fact you lose your 4th amendment rights on school grounds.  But it is all really the same thing.  If we are free, we should be free in government buildings we are forced to go to.

Well it's not like the school staff can just randomly strip search any student. They can however strip search any student with "reasonable suspicion." In other words, if they find you in a bathroom that's smokey you can be searched for cigarettes, even if there's no evidence whatsoever that the smoke was made by you. And of course anything else illegal/against school rules they find during said search is fair game.
Logged

KeithHernandez

  • Writer's Workshoppers
  • Ocular Shenanigans
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1014
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • I am, again, Keith Hernandez
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2007, 09:33:20 pm »

Did the Founding Fathers even have bongs?

George Washington did.
Logged
You say one day soon we will all stand as brothers, 'til then I guess we'll just stand around.

pmcd9

  • Mod Squad
  • Dude since Knucklehead times
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 608
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12778
  • The Kid is up to no good
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2007, 09:44:43 pm »

I don't know about the founding fathers specifically, but water pipes have been around for hundreds of years.
Logged
I hope I never have to refer to a scone in spoken conversation.

jaydub

  • VIP
  • Philippe is standing on it.
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1493
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5056
  • Arrant pedantry
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2007, 12:51:30 am »

George Washington did.
Apparently, he grew hemp as well.  Hmmmm...
Logged
If you desire peace, work for justice.

KeithHernandez

  • Writer's Workshoppers
  • Ocular Shenanigans
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1014
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • I am, again, Keith Hernandez
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2007, 05:10:58 am »

I was joking.  And he grew marijuana.  And he smoked it.  It is in his journal.  That is what the joke was supposed to be.  Sorry that it wasn't good.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 08:36:41 am by KeithHernandez »
Logged
You say one day soon we will all stand as brothers, 'til then I guess we'll just stand around.

jaydub

  • VIP
  • Philippe is standing on it.
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1493
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5056
  • Arrant pedantry
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2007, 05:26:02 am »

Oh.  Well.  Carry on then.
Logged
If you desire peace, work for justice.

Doc

  • Growing Cucumbers of Impressive Dimensions
  • Writer's Workshoppers
  • Philippe is standing on it.
  • *
  • Tiny cans of Dr Pepper: 1408
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5017
  • an emergency backup pug
    • View Profile
Re: Bong Hits 4 Jesus: US Student loses "Free Speech" lawsuit
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2007, 07:49:08 am »

Ah I was lazy and didn't read so I didn't get that he wasn't at school. I'm still not totally behind him though, I think the school could have handled it differently (say, a teacher just tell him to stop being an ass and put the sign away) but when I hear freedom of speech I take it to mean that someone will not be locked up for voicing their opinion, being suspended from school isn't exactly sending in the gestapo.

Also your country has a hell of a lot of faith in the infinite wisdom of a bunch of dudes who died over a century or two ago.
Logged
Inev: 'A lot of things are ridiculous if you think about them long enough, you know?'
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up