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I get so lonely up here. You never write, you never call.

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Author Topic: Descriptivism  (Read 11945 times)

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Golfhaus

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2007, 12:57:05 am »
My wife and I have this argument all the time. I believe in the evolution of the language, she thinks it's either Good English or Bad English. She feels that seeing the language as a fluid thing allows stupid people to keep doing their thing without getting corrected.

Really, all I want is the reintroduction of the letter thorn to the alphabet. Žink of že efficiency žat žis would provide!
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jaydub

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2007, 01:46:01 am »
Quote from: Golfhaus on August 28, 2007, 12:57:05 am
My wife and I have this argument all the time. I believe in the evolution of the language, she thinks it's either Good English or Bad English. She feels that seeing the language as a fluid thing allows stupid people to keep doing their thing without getting corrected.
This is why my wife (when she was a classroom teacher) wouldn't let me help grade her students' papers.  I don't care if its Health, Biology, or (God forbid) Anatomy and Physiology - if you can't construct a properly spelled, coherent thought, you're not getting full marks, damnit!
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Nabubrush

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2007, 01:51:24 am »
Quote from: jaydub on August 28, 2007, 01:46:01 am
This is why my wife (when she was a classroom teacher) wouldn't let me help grade her students' papers.  I don't care if its Health, Biology, or (God forbid) Anatomy and Physiology - if you can't construct a properly spelled, coherent thought, you're not getting full marks, damnit!

-1 pt.
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jaydub

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 02:29:22 am »
Quote from: Nabubrush drinks (a lot) on August 28, 2007, 01:51:24 am
Quote from: jaydub on August 28, 2007, 01:46:01 am
This is why my wife (when she was a classroom teacher) wouldn't let me help grade her students' papers.  I don't care if its Health, Biology, or (God forbid) Anatomy and Physiology - if you can't construct a properly spelled, coherent thought, you're not getting full marks, damnit!
-1 pt.
Damn!  I

Hoist by my own petard.
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Nabubrush

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2007, 02:37:52 am »
Picture's worth a can, though.
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Doc

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2007, 08:17:16 am »
There is definitely Good english and Bad english but I'll only be an asshole about it when it's in writing, I think conversation can be allowed more leeway.
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wombat

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2007, 12:54:20 pm »
Quote from: jaydub on August 28, 2007, 01:46:01 am
This is why my wife (when she was a classroom teacher) wouldn't let me help grade her students' papers.  I don't care if its Health, Biology, or (God forbid) Anatomy and Physiology - if you can't construct a properly spelled, coherent thought, you're not getting full marks, damnit!

See, this is a totally different thing. Of course there are rules for good writing, which is a more formal use of language. But this isn't really relevant to the original question, and the one of the reasons these discussions never make sense is that people don't distinguish rules of good writing from the natural use of language. Writing is different for many reasons - you need to make up for the lack of stuff you have in face to face interaction like intonation, body language, and the chance to ask for clarification. And you can also argue that following the rules of writing has a social purpose of demonstrating that you're the kind of person who's educated enough to know the rules.

You can't apply the rules for writing to normal speech.  Speaking the way you write a class essay would just make you sound like a space alien who'd learned English without ever hearing it. Whether 'internet' should be capitalized is totally unrelated to whether we can through sheer force of will stop people from saying 'could of.'

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CortJstr

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2007, 01:08:51 pm »
Quote from: wombat on August 28, 2007, 12:54:20 pm
See, this is a totally different thing. Of course there are rules for good writing, which is a more formal use of language. But this isn't really relevant to the original question, and the one of the reasons these discussions never make sense is that people don't distinguish rules of good writing from the natural use of language. Writing is different for many reasons - you need to make up for the lack of stuff you have in face to face interaction like intonation, body language, and the chance to ask for clarification. And you can also argue that following the rules of writing has a social purpose of demonstrating that you're the kind of person who's educated enough to know the rules.

You can't apply the rules for writing to normal speech.  Speaking the way you write a class essay would just make you sound like a space alien who'd learned English without ever hearing it. Whether 'internet' should be capitalized is totally unrelated to whether we can through sheer force of will stop people from saying 'could of.'



Is... is "could've" OK? Am I bad person for saying/writing it?
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smick

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2007, 02:09:50 pm »
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Nabubrush

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2007, 05:00:34 pm »
Quote from: Doc on August 28, 2007, 08:17:16 am
There is definitely Good english and Bad english but I'll only be an asshole about it when it's in writing, I think conversation can be allowed more leeway.

Oh, there's Bad English, alright. And I'll be an asshole about it anytime.
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Golfhaus

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2007, 12:34:32 am »
Quote from: jaydub on August 28, 2007, 01:46:01 am
This is why my wife (when she was a classroom teacher) wouldn't let me help grade her students' papers.  I don't care if its Health, Biology, or (God forbid) Anatomy and Physiology - if you can't construct a properly spelled, coherent thought, you're not getting full marks, damnit!

My sister's students (my wife is a teacher, my sister is a teacher, my best friend from high school is a teacher, and I'm a teacher for a company instead of a school) complain because she teaches them more English than their English teachers do. She is a biology teacher, and has no problem marking someone way way way down if their paper reads of ass.
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Choop

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 11:12:37 pm »
bumpin this oldschool thread for this site over yonder
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pmcd9

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2009, 05:09:55 am »
Ok, I've always stayed out of the descriptivism vs prescriptivism or whatever debates on this board because I really don't understand it and don't care enough about it to learn, but I guess I am not a descriptivist if that post is an example of descriptivism.
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AugustWest

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2009, 02:37:32 pm »
"Prescriptivist" means you believe that there is an "officially correct" version of the English language.  The job of a dictionary writer or grammarian is to codify or "prescribe" the official rules of the language.

A "Descriptivist" does not think there is any such thing as a officially correct version of a language.  A descriptivist observes how people actually use language and documents or "describes" the rules -- which are flexible and always changing.
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wombat

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Re: Descriptivism
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2009, 02:44:39 pm »
and therefore Paul, the link in Choop's post is not an example of descriptivism, but its opposite. Also, of a person who needs to get a life or at least a more interesting idea of what to make a website about, even if they do claim their tongues are partly in cheek. OK, website person, you know more than other people.  Now go take some pictures of pugs or something and get back to me.
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