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Author Topic: Not For Sale  (Read 9060 times)

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side_show

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2007, 08:56:12 pm »

part of the issue is that it was Modern Art, and as such, the Germans thought it was degenerate bullshit.

also: I read an interesting article lately about the Swarm of Bees thing. it posited that the reason people like Bill Gates are so good at philanthropy in a smart way is that... they are a little bit socially dumb. They think about things in terms of numbers, not in terms of Human Impact. And, sometimes, thinking about things that way can be really good.

Interesting point.  I really do wonder where the best place to put my effort and money is.  I mean, globally, shit is fucked up, but I could put all my time into an issue like this or a myriad of others and never really see any gains or I could advocate for my neighbourhood and the issues of my own microcosm and actually see change.  I tend to feel overwhelmed by shit in general, so if someone just said, "Look, here are the numbers, here is where your volunteer work will be most valuable." I'd really like to know that shit.  As it stands now, everyone says they need me, so I freeze up and do dick all.
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jaydub

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2007, 09:03:12 pm »

I really do wonder where the best place to put my effort and money is.  I mean, globally, shit is fucked up, but I could put all my time into an issue like this or a myriad of others and never really see any gains or I could advocate for my neighbourhood and the issues of my own microcosm and actually see change.

We've talked about this.  Admittedly the topic was different, but curiously, the same truth applies, I think.
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V-Adore

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2007, 09:52:30 pm »

In terms of feeling like I'm making a change in the world, I want to hope in some sort of chaos-theory butterfly effect. Like, right now I'm volunteering in a domestic-violence charity, and I'm just doing basic clerical stuff... but it's a small office, so every clerical task I deal with is one the actual social workers don't have to waste time on, and my hope is that it means that they get more good done in the community. That kinda thing. I can just hope my efforts have some positive effect down the line, even if I can never see it.

This is also a mentality developed by basic researchers. Sure, you're not curing cancer right there -- but one day, your papers might lead to someone's cancer-curing. Hopefully.
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Ruta Bagas

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2007, 10:14:37 pm »

The tidiest way to avoid the bonus stress of these questions is to worry principally about climate change. Then you can neatly reason that all other changes you might make would be speedily annulled by the associated humanitarian crisis and maybe get some sleep now and again.

I always find that my main block to action is the feeling that I have no idea what is effective, rather than not knowing where my time would be best spent. I think there is a strong distinction between feeling the need to do something and feeling the need to change something, and while the latter has a pleasant rhetorical ring to it it doesn't generally get anything moving. I suppose that mental state guards pretty effectively against the kind of tokenism that plagues so many issues (especially environmental ones), but that in itself is a bit of a pisspoor benefit.

My girlfriend is an activist of ridiculous energy and drive so I spend a lot of time introvertedly trying to puzzle out why I am so comparatively rubbish. I often think I probably have far more impact on the Serious Issues of the Day by supporting her than I am capable of making through my own bumbling efforts.

I typed out a whole directly relevant paragraph here about how sticking to your passions was probably for the best because that's where you're more effective, but I suspect it was concocted solely to make me feel better so I deleted it.

(This post reminds me of the carrot cake I attempted earlier this week before I had weighing scales, which looked so good as raw mix but turned out to be terminally over-egged.)

jay-ell

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2007, 06:34:21 pm »

Interesting point.  I really do wonder where the best place to put my effort and money is.  I mean, globally, shit is fucked up, but I could put all my time into an issue like this or a myriad of others and never really see any gains or I could advocate for my neighbourhood and the issues of my own microcosm and actually see change.  I tend to feel overwhelmed by shit in general, so if someone just said, "Look, here are the numbers, here is where your volunteer work will be most valuable." I'd really like to know that shit.  As it stands now, everyone says they need me, so I freeze up and do dick all.

I think this is why God gave us each a different passion.  One friend is concerned with the environment; another pal volunteers at a women's shelter.  I used to edit a newsletter for a group that focuses on keeping homeless children with their parents and enrolled in school, but now my focus has turned to autism awareness and treatment.  My mom gives to World Vision -- she adopts one third-world child for each of her grandchildren and contributes on their behalf every month.  We are all doing different kinds of things, and as a result, the world is getting a little better in a lot of ways. 

And that's what makes the world go 'round. 
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pmcd9

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2007, 02:10:25 am »

We are all doing different kinds of things, and as a result, the world is getting a little better in a lot of ways. 

I hate to burst your bubble Pollyanna, but the world is going to hell in a hand basket.  I'm getting out of here as soon as I can.
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side_show

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2007, 01:26:47 pm »

Yeah Paul, I totally agree.  I want to do whatever I can to lessen the misery of myself and others though.  Maybe I should just walk around with quilts, and put them over people's shoulders and go "shhhh.  It's okay.  It's okay. Shhh."  That could be a thing I could do anywhere, and something I would be pretty good at.

But basically I am lazy and selgiraffe and find just being alive day to day so taxing that I don't have anything left for altruism these days.  Sorry folks.  I care.  I have empathy.  I just don't have it in me to do anything about that though.
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wombat

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2007, 03:48:13 pm »

Maybe I should just walk around with quilts, and put them over people's shoulders and go "shhhh.  It's okay.  It's okay. Shhh." 

Oh man, the world really needs this. Could you get a grant or something?
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theinevitable

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2007, 03:50:28 pm »

Quote
I want to do whatever I can to lessen the misery of myself and others though.  Maybe I should just walk around with quilts, and put them over people's shoulders and go "shhhh.  It's okay.  It's okay. Shhh."  That could be a thing I could do anywhere, and something I would be pretty good at.

yeah. um. I have a persistent fantasy that I'm going to buy like 2 dozen umbrellas and just carry them around, and when it rains I'd give them to people who were wet. I would drive around looking for people who needed umbrellas.

I don't know why that is the thing that stands out to me as "daniel, you can do this!"
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jay-ell

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2007, 06:08:24 pm »

One thing keeps popping up repeatedly at me in this thread. Seems most everybody ('cept Somebody nicePantalones) addresses the question from the angle of what can you do individually.

Of course, since this is a  large and convoluted set of problems and the "bee theory" sets in most of the discussion winnows off into an exploration of guilt and lack of empowerment.

One question: How the fuckety fuck is it in any way possible for one person to effectively address even a local ill affecting more than 100 other people?

Gandhi said: "Live simply that others may simply live." 

I try to evaluate my life regularly and eliminate things that are causing me unnecessary stress.  I've been going through my closet every six months and donating unworn clothing (even if it fits, even if I paid a too much for it, even if I only wore it once) to a shelter for homeless families.  My new philosophy on clothing is: have less, launder more.  We just downsized our home and are getting rid of as much furniture and stuff as possible -- much of it going to the aforementioned shelter, which always needs furniture for their temporary housing program -- since keeping stuff "just in case" we find a way to use it in the future is depriving others who need it right now.  I try to buy products that exploit people to the lowest possible degree (I just got a shipment of yarn hand-spun and -dyed exclusively by women in rural communities in Uruguay, distributed by a nonprofit which provides them with enough income to support their families) and to keep the impact of my family's existence on the environment to a minimum (cloth diapers, energy-consciousness, recycling all my glass, plastics, and cardboard).  We have more than a few luxuries, of course -- the Wii, cell phones, I drive a minivan for pete's sake -- but we live happily without some things many people take for granted, like cable TV.  I practice random acts of kindness -- feeding other people's parking meters, picking up litter, etc.  Before we had Pearce, Pedro and I routinely gave rides to hitchhikers (never when alone, though -- just to be safe).  We took a guy all the way from Cleveland to Galax, North Carolina during a road trip to visit my family one Christmas.  Without our help, it might have taken him weeks to hitch back home, and it was damn cold.  It didn't do much for the global economy, but I know that Buck will never forget the nice couple that gave him a ride and three squares one lonely December. 

I could do more.  I could buy more locally-produced fresh food at the farmer's market (and I used to, pre-kids).  I could trade in my van for a hybrid vehicle (but I won't because I use every inch of that cargo space on grocery day).  I could walk more and drive less.  I could buy organic products more often.  I could remember to bring my own bags to the grocery store more than once every six weeks.  (Another thing I was better at pre-kids.)  I could donate a lot more money to charity, especially if my consumerist past hadn't gotten me into so damn much debt. 

But I try, and I do what I can when I can to live as simply as possible.  It makes my life better, and it just might make other people's lives less difficult in some small way.  You never know what kind of an impact your individual actions will have.  I believe in the ripple effect.  If everyone puts in a little effort in whatever ways they can, things might not improve, but at least they won't get much worse. 

Or, you could look at it this way: If we solve all the world's problems, more will rise in their place.  End world hunger, and we have suffocating overpopulation.  Educate everyone and see global underemployment.  Cure cancer and watch people die of AIDS, or Parkinson's, or renal failure, or heart disease.  Or worse, make a cure so expensive that only the wealthy (hint: that's all of us) can afford to live.  Best to make our short stint on Earth as painless as possible for the people closest to you, and leave everyone else alone to suffer in peace. 

I prefer the Gandhi approach, though. 
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wombat

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2007, 07:26:31 pm »


Now someone chime in on part two because I'm beginning to think fraternal or social organizations that promote works is for old farts.


Maybe but... I don't see anything in jl's otherwise excellent approach to life that involves chili cook-offs. So I think you win.

BTW: Don't forget that organic produce isn't necessarily better for the planet if it's been shipped from another continent. Buying more locally grown is probably more important.
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If you're going to change your life then you have to change it every day, not just the days the world isn't taking a shit on you. -Doc

jay-ell

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2007, 07:50:43 pm »

Also, I forgot to say that Pedro went through Indian Guides with his Dad, and those are some of his fondest memories from childhood.  He still has his vest & headdress, and the size 5 t-shirt with his Indian name (red chief) on it. 

He can't wait to take Little P and Robbie when they get old enough.  People with kids, take them to Indian Guides/Princesses.  Pedro describes it as "like boy scouts, but less about homework and more about hanging out with your Dad." 
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lprkn

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2007, 08:25:06 pm »

I guess I can't speak for Indian Guides, but I was heavily involved in boy scouts as a teenager. Whatever your position on their politics, they do a good job at getting kids into the outdoors, which is a thing that our society badly needs. If you have kids, spend some time in the outdoors with them, it's definitely worth it.
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V-Adore

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2007, 11:08:35 pm »

The outdoors thing is thoroughly seconded here. I wasn't a very good or very happy Girl Scout during the school year, but getting out to Girl Scout Camp was always a treat, even though it was just a week-long program at a fairly civilized camp-out area about a half-hour from home. Later, I joined Camp Fire, which had a two-week camp down in Kenai, and that was absolute Heaven. I'm not at all outdoorsy now, but those are some of my most treasured childhood memories.
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AlohaDawg

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Re: Not For Sale
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2007, 06:57:10 am »

The kids bring us back to the previous discussion nicely.

I'm interested in the agony of the working middle class people, especially those of us with lots of things going on, to 'make a difference', I always remind people of a couple of things: if you work and pay taxes, and/or donate through your payroll to united way or other large charitable organizations, you are supporting the people who do the work of making the world better. We'd all like to do something concrete or tangible, but it's important to remember that in the big picture, those of us toiling to keep the economy rolling help make a lot of other things possible. Taxes go to funding a great many non-profit organizations, many of whom wouldn't exist without Federal dollars or support. Federal Agencies fund many programs through categorical funding to states and cities too; lots of the AIDS programs and Homeless programs I've worked with got money through the State and Federal programs I represented.

Also, the number one most important thing I think I do is building good, well grounded kids who understand that we can all do things, even small things, for the environment and for the people around us, and that no act is too small. If everyone did one kind thing for a stranger each day, no matter how small, how different do you think the world would be? (And I'm a conservative...)

Anyhow, never think that you don't do enough if you are doing what you can. And never think you are doing enough if you can and want to do more. The world needs everyone doing what they can before everyone gets cynical like Paul over there.
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