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Author Topic: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?  (Read 12964 times)

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pmcd9

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Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« on: September 29, 2007, 07:21:00 am »

that's what most folks say down here, but I'm not sure.

He's got lots of numbers, but if you play consistantly well without injury for 20 seasons you are bound to accumulate a lot of numbers.  But is that the mark of a hall of famer?  An above average journeyman that racks up big numbers by staying healthy and playing a long time?

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KeithHernandez

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2007, 07:49:38 am »

I hope not, but I don't really know.  I mean, the doubters of him are essentially saying that Hank Aaron didn't really deserve the home run tecord because he only played for a really long time without getting hurt and never hit a lot of home runs in a season.

I just don't think he is an interesting player.


Also, I don't think "journeyman" describes him at all. 

Basically, if an average player has a couple good seasons (check) and plays for a long time (check) he usually gets in.  I just do not like him, or the other old Killer B's.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 09:10:00 am by KeithHernandez »
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littlefallsmets

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2007, 11:46:35 pm »

I don't wanna sound like Pat here?

But I disqualify Biggio from the HoF for playing three seasons past when he should've retired, just to limp on into 3000 hits. You look at the last three seasons of his career and he's hitting .250... like, basically only being allowed to be an everyday starting player out of pity, to let him get 3000 hits.

I say "boo" to this.

I am a psychotic purist about baseball and I hate formerly-good players hanging around and playing like September call-ups for season after season after season, just to get to a number.
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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007, 09:14:38 pm »

do they even let national leaguers in the hall?

and if so, why?
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KeithHernandez

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 09:16:21 pm »

I like you.
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melack

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 12:26:06 am »

3,000 hits aside, the man has a career .281 / .363. / .433 line. If you exclude the past three seasons, it's .291 / .380 / .435. Better, but nothing that really screams Hall of Fame to me. Then again, he did play most of his career in the Astrodome, which is a pitcher's park.

Oh, he also has four Gold Gloves. I didn't realize that. Then again, Jeter has a few and he couldn't snag a ground ball three feet to his left. Soo....

I really have no idea. Who else retiring at the end of this year would he be going up against? Maybe Sheffield if his shoulder finally falls off. Any other first-balloters?

JorgeFabregas

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 02:04:00 am »

He will be first ballot whether you think so or not. Middle infielders get a lot of leeway.

Compare Ryne Sandberg who didn't play as long:
.285  .344  .452

Also, Biggio was pretty much at his career average OPS in 2005 so saying he played three seasons too long is a stretch.
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littlefallsmets

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2007, 02:10:02 am »

Well, I would counter that by saying...

Since his major argument for the HoF is built on the fact that he was able to accumulate so many singles that he was able to get 3000 hits, OPS sort of goes out the window with the bathwater.

And I'll also add, I never would've voted for Ryne Sandberg, unless they opened a Hall of Very Good. Him, Biggio and Mattingly could be the first three guys inducted.
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JorgeFabregas

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 02:11:23 am »

Well, I would counter that by saying...

Since his major argument for the HoF is built on the fact that he was able to accumulate so many singles that he was able to get 3000 hits, OPS sort of goes out the window with the bathwater.

And I'll also add, I never would've voted for Ryne Sandberg, unless they opened a Hall of Very Good. Him, Biggio and Mattingly could be the first three guys inducted.
That doesn't make any sense. I'm saying he's comparable with other HOF middle infielders in terms of average production per year and superior in terms of accumulation. You can't just say "Oh, he's an accumulator so the averages can't count in his favor as well."
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 02:15:24 am by JorgeFabregas »
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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007, 04:05:04 am »

My feeling on the Hall of Fame is that you need at least three seasons of being one of the best at... something.  Biggio's never been in the elite, IMO.  Being very good for a long time gets you most of the way, but you have to be transcendent at some point to be Hall of Fame material.

Being top ten every year without being top five once isn't HoF-worthy to me.
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AugustWest

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2007, 04:18:52 am »

My feeling on the Hall of Fame is that you need at least three seasons of being one of the best at... something.  Biggio's never been in the elite, IMO.  Being very good for a long time gets you most of the way, but you have to be transcendent at some point to be Hall of Fame material.

Being top ten every year without being top five once isn't HoF-worthy to me.

I gave you a tiny can for the rhetorical quality of this post.

It has nothing to do with the content.  I don't really give a shit about the topic.

However, your post clearly and concisely elucidates the reasons for your position.  You do something vital to a strong argument -- you set out your standards (your axioms, your postulates) first and do it in a plain, straightforward manner.

Then you implicitly cite facts which support your premise (i.e. Biggio isn't a Hall of Famer) in a subtle but convincing manner.  Compelling stuff.

Congratulations!  As a professional rhetorician, this Tiny Can of Dr. Pepper represents my salute to your argumentative skills.  Enjoy.
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melack

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2007, 04:53:11 am »

That is either the most genuine or the most condescending can-giving post ever. There can be no middle ground.

AugustWest

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2007, 05:03:29 am »

That is either the most genuine or the most condescending can-giving post ever. There can be no middle ground.

It's entirely genuine. 
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KeithHernandez

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2007, 05:20:50 am »

My feeling on the Hall of Fame is that you need at least three seasons of being one of the best at... something.  Biggio's never been in the elite, IMO.  Being very good for a long time gets you most of the way, but you have to be transcendent at some point to be Hall of Fame material.

Being top ten every year without being top five once isn't HoF-worthy to me.

Are you talking about the same guy who is number one all time in national league for HBP?  Didn't think so.
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melack

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Re: Craig Biggio - Hall of Famer?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2007, 05:35:42 am »

One of my favorite lesser-known baseball blogs is Plunk Biggio, a site that managed to follow Biggio's quest for hit-by-pitch immortaility with an absurd but entertaining level of statistical detail.  Now that site is shutting down, for obvious reasons. I'm more saddened to see the site close than to see Biggio retire.

There's a new form of criteria for you: does a player deserve to make the Hall when you care more about trivia-based websites dedicated to him than the player himself?
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