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[Doc]

So check this out.

This is bizzarely unjust to me. I'm not rooting for the defendant or anything, he tried to burgle this family and left some poor schmuck brain-damaged so he's clearly the real thing, but first degree murder without having to prove intent seems scarily illogical to me.

[theinevitable]

yeah, wow, no. no sense at all.

[Golfhaus]

"This man had no business killing these boys," Brown said. "They were shot in the back. They had fled."

I call bullshit there. Someone breaks into my house, I have every right to defend it. I don't know about this whole charge-the-other-guy-with-their-murder thing, but whenever someone gets on their hoss about not defending your family when your house gets broken into, I start getting pissed.

[Doc]

I'm against widespread gun ownership but yeah I can't really fault the guy given that his step son got brain damaged, these guys obviously weren't playing around. I just can't twist my mind around charging a guy who probably narrowly avoided getting shot himself with first degree murder.

[theinevitable]

I mean, it seems to me that the other two guys got themselves into that situation, and got shot. Was he the ringleader? Why is he responsible for their decision? he is responsible for his own actions-- breaking in and assault.

[jaydub]

I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the wheelman in a bank crew is charged with murder if one of his associates kills a guard in the course of a robbery.  A smart defense attorney would probably plead his offense down in return for testifying against his associates, though.  This guys got no one to rat out, so he'll go down for all of them.
Assault, IIRC, is even the threat of violence.  If coerce cooperation from someone else through threat of violence, that's assault.  If you lay a hand on them to further that coercion, its battery.  This goon should be thanking God he's not pushing up daisies with his cohorts.

[jay-ell]

I'm no lawyer...

Where is august on this one? 

I see the validity of the argument that he was responsible for the deaths of his cohorts by bringing them (and himself) into a situation that might become dangerous, but I don't see the point of prosecuting him this way.  The only thing I can think of is if the DA wants to make sure he stays in prison for life, and the maximum sentences for his other crimes wouldn't be sufficient to ensure that he never gets out.  Seems to me that this is a trumped-up charge that takes advantage of the a loophole in the criminal justice system to inflict retribution on a man who is a different kind of criminal from what they make him out to be. 

I think the race card was played here, but not by the defense.  The words used by the father in the news story, "this black gang thought they would beat up on a white family," unnerved me.  I seriously doubt that the three robbers cared whether the occupants of the house were black or white.  Clearly, however, the jury did care.  And they ruled accordingly. 

JMHO.  Also, I've been watching too much Boston Legal, because I find myself thinking about how Alan Shore would argue this case. 

[theinevitable]

A law holding dude responsible for the outcome of his direct actions is unfair? Tell that to the kid who can't feed himself or the shattered family that night left behind.

yes. it is fair to charge him for what he did-- assault the family, attempt to steal their stuff, beat up the kid. I just don't understand how in hell he is responsible for the decisions of the other two guys. They assaulted the kid and got shot. That seems pretty cut and dry cause-and-effect to me.

[KeithHernandez]

Alright I don't know about this, seems a bit giraffey, but who robs someone for pot?  Especially in California?

When I was in San Francisco I saw two guys buy weed from a guy by Amoeba Records, then walk down the street and sell it to tourists by the McDonalds right by Golden Gate Park.  In less the were robbing pot to sell, which makes this a completely different crime, I don't really understand or think that was the only reason.

[theinevitable]

I don't know. My understanding of the criminal justice system is mostly based around punishment of people based on things which they intentionally do. if he weren't the one swinging the bat, he is still part of a group of 3 guys who are assaulting and robbing this family. he broke into their house with the intent of assaulting and robbing them. he did not break into that house with the intent that his friends/accomplices would be shot. that may be simplistic or whatever, but... punishing someone for something that happened to someone else as a result of their own actions makes no sense to me based on that understanding.

[melack]

Alright I don't know about this, seems a bit giraffey, but who robs someone for pot?  Especially in California?

When I was in San Francisco I saw two guys buy weed from a guy by Amoeba Records, then walk down the street and sell it to tourists by the McDonalds right by Golden Gate Park.  In less the were robbing pot to sell, which makes this a completely different crime, I don't really understand or think that was the only reason.

Ahh, gotta love the Haight. Speaking of which, are you still moving out here? I finally got my apartment in the city proper.

[theinevitable]

Alright I don't know about this, seems a bit giraffey, but who robs someone for pot?  Especially in California?

When I was in San Francisco I saw two guys buy weed from a guy by Amoeba Records, then walk down the street and sell it to tourists by the McDonalds right by Golden Gate Park.  In less the were robbing pot to sell, which makes this a completely different crime, I don't really understand or think that was the only reason.

I too, was wondering this, but I didn't want to be the naive guy who didn't know people rob for pot.

Asherdan, agreed. We aren't going to agree on this i guess.

[KeithHernandez]

I am saying that if you want free weed you can get it in 20 minutes tops by doing what those guys in my first post did.  If you want money then you rob a drug dealer and sell his stash.  Two completely different things.

Also, Inev, about the intentional thing, if I drive drunk with the purpose of getting home and unintentionally kill someone, etc.  Not arguing, nor does it have any significance here but you know, just saying.

[KeithHernandez]

Ahh, gotta love the Haight. Speaking of which, are you still moving out here? I finally got my apartment in the city proper.

And yeah, I am coming out there, maybe in February ish, maybe in may or june, depending on these next few weeks and a long ass capstone paper I have no will to do.

[theinevitable]

Also, Inev, about the intentional thing, if I drive drunk with the purpose of getting home and unintentionally kill someone, etc.  Not arguing, nor does it have any significance here but you know, just saying.

yeah, but the issue to me is that in that case you would be majorly fuck*ng up and killing an innocent passerby. In this case the other guys made their own decision, entirely separate from his.