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[jaydub]

I'm amused to find California relevant in a national election.  I'm very curious to see what the pundits make of the numbers coming out of tomorrow's contests.  I have a feeling, based on what I'm hearing around me, that the Bay Area has fallen hard for Barack Obama.  If that bears out, and the national Democrat types cut Hillary loose (telling her to settle for VP perhaps), I think we may well be looking at another 4 years of Republican executive leadership.

I don't think its a black president that the nation isn't ready for - I just don't think that much of America will find the idea of handing the mantle of state to the junior senator of Illinois wise.  On the other hand, I think his presence in the Senate would be missed.  I hope his presidential bid doesn't sink his chances at re-election.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Barack Obama has already admitted defeat in California. He said this on tonight's CBS news interview with Katie Couric.

[linnea]

I honestly think that the majority of Amurrikans think, "Ain't no Negro or woman gonna run this heah country."  I've never been to a caucus before, so it will be interesting. I think that Hillary is a more seasoned candidate than Obama, but I cannot envision a woman being elected in the 21st century, because despite all the progress we've made, we're still mired in patriarchal society. I think that the majority of Americans want an old, rich, white dude as president. Maybe in the 22nd century a black and/or female candidate will have a chance?

We'll see how things turn out in November, I guess.

[jaydub]

This is probably his version of the case of sniffles Clinton came down with before the NH primary.  Rallying support for the underdog.

Barack Obama has already admitted defeat in California. He said this on tonight's CBS news interview with Katie Couric.

I honestly think that the majority of Amurrikans think, "Ain't no Negro or woman gonna run this heah country."

Somebody nice, those crusty anarchists in Alaska must have rubbed a cynical spot raw on you.  Of course, I live in Pollyannaland, CA where they hand out rose-colored glasses with your multicultural neighborhood welcome packet.

[melack]

That seems like a nicer part of CA where I live; I'm just trying not to trip over hoboes on the way to work.

[littlefallsmets]

Ultimately, I think Barack falls not because of his (multi) ethnicity but rather because a vote for Hilary is a vote for Bill as First Dude.

I know that there are a lot of right-wing types who do not appreciate the Bubbalicious but anywhere there are core Democrats, there are people who miss the hell outta that lovable scamp. Maybe Senator Obama gives Gramps McCain less of a shot than Hilary does across the spectrum of the American opinion scheme?

But, man, an indirect way to vote for Bill again? I'm there, kids.

EDIT: Remember though, linnea... the right-wing DESPISES McCain for not sucking White Jesus's cock every single moment of his public service, no matter how conservative his votes usually are and all of his war-type bonafides and so on.

That is definitely a balance point for all of the similar ovary-hating and Clinton-hating on the right.

[KeithHernandez]

Yeah, I don't think that is right at all LFM.

My parents are strong democrats who liked and prospered under Clinton but don't really want to go there again.  They are both voting Obama.  I have heard a lot of baby boomers talking about how their generation fucked up their presidents, too.  Especially on liberal (but not too liberal) news sites.  These people generally just want to move on, it seems.  Then again, my dads location and income plus his political beliefs make the NYT call every election cycle because he is not normal for the area and the other people are opinion columnists on liberal, internet only news sites, so maybe I don't know a thing.

Well, here is a useless thing I learned in history class:  If McCain doesn't win, we will never have a president born during the 1930s.  It would be really unlikely at least.

Plus, Bill is being a real jerk recently.  I always basically liked him (to young to really care until it was just about oral sex, then I was hell of interested), but I am more leaning to the "fuck that guy" side by the day.  I mean, yeah, I would vote for (the) Clinton(s) over any republican, but I don't think that many people really have a strong urge to go back to those times.  Stuff was good, stuff was bad.  Better than today for sure, but why not go forward?  Isn't that what liberals are supposed to do?


Sign me up for Kucinich if he is on the ballot, if not I'll go Obama.  I vote for who I want my president to be during the primaries, i'll make concessions during the presidential race.

[jaydub]

the right-wing DESPISES McCain for not sucking White Jesus's cock every single moment of his public service, no matter how conservative his votes usually are and all of his war-type bonafides and so on.

This is actually one of my strongest arguments for voting for McCain. Loosening the Religious White's stranglehold on the Republican party can only lead to better politics.  Its been an absolute trainwreck for moderate republicans in California for going on 14 years.  Tom Campbell should be in national office now - instead he's teaching business and running Haas (the B-school) at Berkeley.

[KeithHernandez]

McCain is okay, but I don't like his politics.

[littlefallsmets]

No no no, that's the conundrum about McCain.

He would be the most conservative of all because he would feel that he HAS to be if he wants a second term.

Kind of a reverse "Only Nixon can go to China" thing. He'd have to try to pass legislation making remembering that there's a such concept as abortion illegal, if he wants them to back him and keep backing him. No trust there, no matter what he does.

Mijesuske Huckjesusajesusbee would have the right-wing resume to occasionally be moderate about this or that and get away with it.

Romney can't win because there's a lot of places where they'd just rather run a third-party guy or not vote as opposed to voting for a Mormon, whether they wanna admit it on anything other than a secret ballot or not.

Besides. 51% of all Americans everywhere are ladies. I think it really takes the edge off of sexism keeping a woman from being a president and every dude has a mom or had one... there's a lot of American caucasians who have tried and succeeded in zip-locking themselves away from blacks in every fashion that they can.

Ladies are everywhere.

I hate to put it in this manner but... I think we're gonna be at a point as a nation where we're "ready" for a woman president a generation before we're "ready" for a black president. I don't know if that's Hilary or not but... there we are.

Even the most conservative men either fuck ladies or desperately pretend that they are fuck*ng ladies.

It's a hard weird crude way or approaching it but I think it's probably true.

[Arachno-capitalist]

There will be blood.

Either way tomorrow should be interesting, even if inconclusive.

[theinevitable]

I hate to put it in this manner but... I think we're gonna be at a point as a nation where we're "ready" for a woman president a generation before we're "ready" for a black president. I don't know if that's Hilary or not but... there we are.

I have the exact opposite intuition. I think most people would vote for a man with black skin before a woman with... ovaries and feelings. So many people straight-up hate Senator Clinton.

Obama though, man. I dig on him.

And McCain... well... he gave this speech at some point about Torture that made me almost tear up a little bit. I feel like democrats/liberals have lost some kind of... moral clarity. You know? He is, or was, willing to say "you think torture is OK? that's unamerican. if we torture, we are no better than the terrorists. the thing that got me through those years in the Hanoi Hilton was the knowledge that I was better than my captors."

I don't think people pick-and-choosing Bible passages should have a monopoly on moral clarity and willingness to call people on their bullshit.

...of course, lately, McCain seems to be hell of pandering.

I think it was Keith who said he had a bumper sticker that says "The last time we mixed politics and religion... we had a successful civil rights movement."

[littlefallsmets]

From what I've looked at the history of the civil rights movement... not my strongest suit, admittedly... there's this weird thing going on where all the contributions of non-religious components in the civil rights movement have kind of been conveniently forgotten.

There was as much burning religious furvor against African-American rights as there was for it, remember... I think the convenient narrative betrays the truth of history on that one.

The left lacks moral authority not because they lost the weight of moral authority but, rather, because they/we were tricked into losing focus and spreading it willy-nilly into concern for everyone and everything instead of fixing what needs to be fixed most urgently first and then moving on to the next set of things that need fixing.

I think the expansion of media into a collection of niches instead of a few national programming choices created this slow growing schism on accident and... as the media consolidated, certain business forces have done their best to push that schism as hard as they could on purpose.

Ain't no progress at all if all the progressives devolve into one-issue voters on whatever one-issue cranks their gank the most... and oh, by the by, on that note, Ralph Nader sucks the devil's cock in hell.

Also? Ralph Nader sucks the devil's cock in hell. I cannot stress this enough. There's no better or more singular example of the above than Ralph Nader... of a dude with good intentions doing more harm just by the bad guys letting him hang himself with his own vanity.

There are not many people I have never met who I would punch in the face if I met them.

Ralph Nader and Cliff Floyd are on that short list.

[Doc]

I've obviously got a bit of distance from the nuance of what's going on over there, but I reckon if you end up with Obama vs. McCain you'd be in a good place. Probably be a decently tight race too.

Hillary has way too much baggage and doesn't come across as very personable (which shouldn't matter, but there you go) Obama has his neo-kennedy schtick down. If you want to vote for someone who knows what's going on from the inside and can get stuff done you'd vote for Hillary but I'm putting money on people voting for Obama because maybe they want a break from all this divisive politics (isn't that how Bush got in?).

McCain seems like a good guy, I can only hope he's made the switcheroos he has recently to get elected and his heart won't be in it when he's in the big house. On the other hand he is getting on and I don't know how that would play.


I wonder if Ron Paul will go independant and be a conservative version of Nader. Poor old Ron, I like the guy (though not all his policies) but I think he might be too much of an idealist.

[Arachno-capitalist]

I wonder if Ron Paul will go independant and be a conservative version of Nader. Poor old Ron, I like the guy (though not all his policies) but I think he might be too much of an idealist.

Ron Paul has said with "99.9% certainty" that he wont go independent. I think at this point hes just trying to be a voice in the wind. He comes off, to me, as a breath of reality to the other guys in the debates. Like that clip in the last debate where he called out Mccain and Romney for arguing over "who said what when" when there are very real very serious issues in this country that need to be debated.

Also? Ralph Nader sucks the devil's cock in hell. I cannot stress this enough.

Can you give a quick summary of why you feel this way? I just think of him as someone youd like. Hes liberal on every issue and visions himself a genuine advocate for the common man.