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[Doc]

Ron Paul has said with "99.9% certainty" that he wont go independent. I think at this point hes just trying to be a voice in the wind. He comes off, to me, as a breath of reality to the other guys in the debates. Like that clip in the last debate where he called out Mccain and Romney for arguing over "who said what when" when there are very real very serious issues in this country that need to be debated.

I saw that clip, it was a good scene. I think the tragic thing is that people (his own party especially) have dismissed him as being unrealistic and not addressing the 'real issues' (i.e. TERRORISM!!!!) when many of the things he speaks about are quite sensible and important, even if his own solutions to them are quite radical.
I saw an interview with him on the Daily show a while back and what struck me most was that when he's not talking about the things he's passionate about he seems to not have great focus in that old person kind of way. Not the best trait in a future commander in chief.

[theinevitable]

Ralph Nader sucks the devil's cock in hell because when the liberal vote gets split, we get President George W Bush in office. Who is not the person the liberals voted for, not even a little bit.

[KeithHernandez]

He makes poor points.  I realized that after the first time I posted.  Seriosuly, LFM, in these types of threads you should make your points clearer.  We all know what you are saying, so just say it so you and A-CAP don't just do this bullshit, and if you are going to do it you will just get it out of the way. 

Also, not my bumpersticker!

Ron Paul is just another guy who says stuff that is generally honest and consistent, at least it really feels like that.  That is pretty cool, mainly the consistency thing.  Those guys don't win.

Ralph Nader sucks the devil's cock in hell because when the liberal vote gets split, we get President George W Bush in office. Who is not the person the liberals voted for, not even a little bit.

That was the part that everybody knew, even A-CAP.  But if LFM would have said that he wouldn't have said shit.

[littlefallsmets]

On the subject of Nader.

It is all well and good to stand for a bunch of nice things that I mostly agree with.

It is quite another to grandstand on news channels and wag your finger and feel really awesome about yourself and make a bunch of promise that no one who can actually win would ever be able to make... and get just enough sheep to follow your egotistical ass to set history back forty years so that they can "make their stand" with you.

As an advocate, as an author, as a talking head? Top-notch.

As a supremely arrogant douchenozzle who put his ego ahead of not letting George fuck*ng W fuck*ng Bush be the goddamned president of the largest military power in the world? Punch in the fuck*ng mouth.

Sometimes history is not about trying in vain to more ten steps forward at once and blowing the whole hoss-show in the process, rather it is about holding ground until it is safe to move slowly forward again.

I have a lot of ideals and a lot of beliefs but... change can't come all at once. People who promise that it will, magically, are either fuck*ng completely nuts or just grandstanding about it because they know that it'll get them on the teevee, throwing around a lot of promises they'll never have to fulfill because they can't win.

That is bush league bullshit.

Denny Kooch knows the score... you get into the mix to get some ideas in when you can but when the chips are down, you get the fuck out of the way and smile while you're fuckin' doing it.

The way to get your ideals made into reality is a long hard series of slogs, not the promise of some fuckin' douchebag cutting the brakes on America just so that he can wag his finger and feel good about himself and leave us barrelling out of control, unsafe at any speed.

Fuck. Ralph. Nader.

[KeithHernandez]

On the subject of Nader.

It is all well and good to stand for a bunch of nice things that I mostly agree with.

It is quite another to grandstand on news channels and wag your finger and feel really awesome about yourself and make a bunch of promise that no one who can actually win would ever be able to make... and get just enough sheep to follow your egotistical ass to set history back forty years so that they can "make their stand" with you.

I don't remember, did he even get to debate?  He wasn't even on the ballot in my state.  I had to go out of my way to find a story about him that wasn't about him ruining the democrats chances.

As an advocate, as an author, as a talking head? Top-notch.

Huh, he seems good at a lot of things.

As a supremely arrogant douchenozzle who put his ego ahead of not letting George fuck*ng W fuck*ng Bush be the goddamned president of the largest military power in the world? Punch in the fuck*ng mouth.

Oh, shit, nevermind.  Seems like a punch in the mouth would be kinda something that Bush would do.  I recall reading studies that showed most of his votes came from people who otherwise wouldn't have voted, at least in Florida where it mattered.  This could be bullshit.  Since you are the one wanting to punch a dude you don't know, you should tell me how Nader, who has done all of these great things, is worse then Democratic voters who didn't think their vote mattered, or the Supreme Court, or disenfranchised voters or the ballot style or whatever.

Sometimes history is not about trying in vain to more ten steps forward at once and blowing the whole hoss-show in the process, rather it is about holding ground until it is safe to move slowly forward again.

Yeah, sometimes, I guess.  Sometimes crazy ass wars or other disputes bring about change.  Generally it is something hell of chaotic though, and, well, maybe Nader helped yet.  You know what brought about the Civil Rights era as much as anything else?  WWII, because African Americans got jobs and they weren't going back down easily.  Do you know why it lasted?  Because brave people said fuck off to people who said the shit you are saying now.

I have a lot of ideals and a lot of beliefs but... change can't come all at once. People who promise that it will, magically, are either fuck*ng completely nuts or just grandstanding about it because they know that it'll get them on the teevee, throwing around a lot of promises they'll never have to fulfill because they can't win.

Well, that is bullshit.

That is bush league bullshit.

If I would have said bush league would that have made my point better?

Denny Kooch knows the score... you get into the mix to get some ideas in when you can but when the chips are down, you get the fuck out of the way and smile while you're fuckin' doing it.

He dropped out early after spending money to do a recount in New Hampshire after voting irregularities involving the machine vs. non machine votes.

The way to get your ideals made into reality is a long hard series of slogs, not the promise of some fuckin' douchebag cutting the brakes on America just so that he can wag his finger and feel good about himself and leave us barrelling out of control, unsafe at any speed.

The part you don't recognize is that this only works if your ideas are the same or similar to those you are blowing to move up.  Cutting the breaks how exactly?  Seems like Nader has done a lot of good for our country, as much as any others going for president.  Why would he try to cut the breaks now?  He is one of the reasons we have breaks that work like we do now, at least in our cars.  Ralph Nader should do more, not less.

Fuck. Ralph. Nader.

Cliff Floyd is a good guy that does a lot of good, slow, safe-for-jerks-like-you work in Inner-Cities.  If baseball and wars are the same to you, maybe you shouldn't act so damn morally superior to people who do stuff actively to improve the way our (including your) world works, especially if they actually believe what they are doing.

[theinevitable]

it's also really interesting how... the kids I know who are all cynical and jaded and stuff are all ga-ga for Obama. All wearing big buttons and stickers, all encouraging people to get out and vote and make their voices heard.
Come on, guys. If you can't be cynical and jaded all the time, I can't be naive and credulous all the time, and then our whole friendship is out of sync.

[lprkn]

Isn't there a saying somewhere to the effect of "cynics are all incurable romantics at heart?"

[wombat]

I think most people would vote for a man with black skin before a woman with... ovaries and feelings.

I am afraid that this is correct. Also, remember, Obama is only half black. We'll never sneak a woman in that way.

And - um, is Ralph Nader running?

[Arachno-capitalist]

And - um, is Ralph Nader running?

Nope.

[theinevitable]

I am afraid that this is correct.

I almost slapped my roommate when he went on a thing about how we don't need anyone crying in the oval office, and then imitated her "crying" when they asked her that question in New Hampshire.

[Arachno-capitalist]

I almost slapped my roommate when he went on a thing about how we don't need anyone crying in the oval office, and then imitated her "crying" when they asked her that question in New Hampshire.

I am with him. We do not need someone crying in the oval office. Can you just imagine what our enemies would do with that footage? I think it is much more effective to have people taking charge in a situation than people crying when stressed. Seriously though, if she cries after a couple months of just running for office, what is she going to do in a real crisis? It isn't about being male or female here, its about how someone handles stress. The New Hampshire primary was so overwhelming she had a break down? But global tensions with nuclear nations... that shell be able to take in stride?

[wombat]

We do not need someone crying in the oval office.

And of course, men never cry. So that'll take care of that.

[theinevitable]

have you actually seen the video? she pauses for a moment, and then keeps talking. She isn't "crying," she isn't "breaking down," she maybe chokes up for 2 seconds. It's been blown completely out of proportion and is accepted as the truth because people believe that she would cry, she's only a woman after all.

Has President Bush ever cried in the Oval office? probably not. Maybe he should, though.

[Arachno-capitalist]

And of course, men never cry. So that'll take care of that.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with how a person will handle stress in the most stressful job.
Both of you are making her sex the issue, thats not the point im making.

[Arachno-capitalist]

I think that the majority of Americans want an old, rich, white dude as president.

Why is that a completely unacceptable thing to want in a president, but the millions of people who say stuff like "Im voting for hillary because its time for a woman" or "Im voting for obama because hes black" is totally okay and progressive? I think all three of these are weak reasons to choose a president, but I question why its ok for people to rant on about the latter two but should be ashamed of the first.