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[AugustWest]

Based on my experience, everything positive anyone says about Apple products (OK, iPods at least) is based upon marketing hype.  A triumph of form over substance.  Sure, they look pretty -- but the motherfuckers do not work, and when they do they require you to use only their kludgy-assed, inconvenient, must be updated every-other week software.  Oh yes, and I can only synch it on one user account on one computer. 

I am sick sick sick of it.

Here's my story.  Bought daughter a reconditioned 30gig iPod for Christmas 2006.  By August 2006, after returning said device for repairs  three times, I gave up.  On each occasion it worked for a few weeks (WEEKS!) then plotzed out (the same way each time).  I'll hand it the Apple Service department -- they're friendly and efficient.  They handled each service request efficiently so that each time her iPod was replaced with a different one within about 10 days.  But they outlasted me.  By the time the fourth device blinked a cute, well-designed little frowning iPod icon on it's oh so chic screen I was thoroughly disgusted and wrote the loss up to experience.  Maybe it was because it was reconditioned?

Jump ahead a few months to daughter's latest birthday last week.  She wants a Shuffle or something comparable (but she really wants a Shuffle.)  Despite my serious reservations I took a deep breath and bought her a 1gig Shuffle (rather than a 2gig player I could have gotten for about the same $$$).  But it was cute.  And purple.  And she'd like it.

And here we fuck*ng are again.

After downloading updates to the iPod software, to iTunes and to the iCemaker on my freezer the SOB (pardon iSOB) still will not recognize the songs I've synched to it.  I've finally convinced it to hold a charge -- it would be nice if the little purple turd would play the songs that iTunes says it has put on there.  But no.  The Shuffle flashes it cute little well-designed LEDs at me in a cute little well-designed pattern that the cute little well-designed reference card says means "No music on unit".

Fuck you Jobs.  You can cram it with walnuts.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that all you Apple apologists are simply delusional.  I'm ready for something ugly that actually works.

[littlefallsmets]

I'm with you on this one, A&W.

I would also add that Mac stuff is so user-friendly that you cannot... actually... DO much of anything.

There is user-friendly and there is just fuckin' dumbed down.

[theinevitable]

My dad did not have any kind of problem with his Apple until last week. He called, they told him what was going wrong, he fixed it by uninstalling an update which caused some kind of error.

At this point, almost every single thing I have tried to do with my Dell has failed. Sound card failed and hard drive failed (luckily my dad had a connection and got me a replacement). Wireless rarely works. Plug-in internet randomly fails sometimes if the computer is having a bad day. screen randomly turns off. battery lasts 45 minutes tops. Hard drive came split into multiple partitions for no good reason. Customer service never helped me until my dad called the guy he knew and got me through the bullshit. They kept telling me to re-install windows, even though I explained that I KNEW it was a hardware problem.

I don't really see how Apple's products are in any way dumbed-down. They are incredibly well-designed and functional. What exactly can you not do with a mac?

[Arachno-capitalist]

I dont know whats going on with you, AW. The fact that various units of the same product have failed under your operation may point to user fault. The odds that there are that many faulty ipods and that you happen to get so many of them that times in a row is literally unbelievable. My girlfriend, roommate, and I all have shuffles and theyve worked perfectly.
You complain about "updates every other week", yet every time I start up windows, that stupid bubble is there telling me i have to update something. Its really great when Im giving a powerpoint presentation and the audience is informed that I havent updated windows media player.

As for user-friendly vs. functionality - People who actually know how to customize an operation without fuck*ng a device up know how to find the ways to customize it. Ive never run into a problem with functionality on my mac. If youre talking about the shuffle, the lack of functionality is upfront - its a cheap, stylish, mp3 player that will play random mp3s continuously. If you want more function, that means a more complicated device and you can buy a different ipod.
My Macbook Pro has never crashed, never gotten a virus, never stalled out, and runs windows vista and Mac 10.5 SIMULTANEOUSLY. The fact that it is not ugly is a side factor. The stability and functionality are key selling points.

[AugustWest]

See.  Delusional.

[Arachno-capitalist]

There are ugly things that work. Plenty of them. Apple didnt make the only mp3 player, just the best one. You can find plenty of non-apple mp3 players, but they all suck.

[AugustWest]

I dont know whats going on with you, AW. The fact that various units of the same product have failed under your operation may point to user fault.

For a variety of reasons, I don't think that's the case.  I've somehow managed to install and operate various PC peripherals since the late 70's.  There are 3 other mp3 players in the house which I have been able to load, operate and maintain with great ease.  None of these iPods were dropped or otherwise physically abused.  If they're so fragile they can't bear being carried around or riding in a vehicle, well...

But let's assume that it was some sort of user fault.  What the hell kind of "great design" requires a return to the manufacturer after an user error.  Reboot, reinstall, good to go.  Not with the iPod! 

BAH.

[AugustWest]

There are ugly things that work. Plenty of them. Apple didnt make the only mp3 player, just the best one. You can find plenty of non-apple mp3 players, but they all suck.

Just exactly how much Apple stock do you own?

[littlefallsmets]

Mac didn't make the best mp3 player... like... at all.

They had the bread and "cred" to market really really well an mp3 player with a control switch that is completely intuitive to a five-year-old but... fuck it... I want something other than drop-down menus. Let me like... get to my fuck*ng songs, goddamn it.

They tried their damnedest to weld the battery in there so you'd have to replace the whole damn thing if the battery went... and all sorts of other terrible things that weren't "the best mp3 player" at all.

They had the resources to say "okay, we are going to take this one niche by storm and work from there come hell or fuck*ng high water" and a whole lot of hipster douchebags making their ads.

[theinevitable]

I haven't had any issues with my iPod since I bought the newest one. My old one that I got years ago pooped out after 2 years or so, but my current one has been great all along.

All of the non-iPod mp3 players I've seen have been clunky and awkward to use, also.

LFM, why do you hate everything that is good. To listen to your songs you click on Music, and then Songs.

and, I mean, if it isn't the best MP3 player, what is the best mp3 player? the thing is a well-made object.

[Arachno-capitalist]

LFM, you are evidently in the totally small minority, Because the great and vast majority has voted with their dollars that the ipod is the best mp3 player. If it sucked, people wouldnt continue to buy them year after year. Instead, the evidence show that people love their ipods. It isnt just hipster douch bags who buy ipods... if that was their niche their stock price wouldnt be where it is. You need to realize that just because your preferences dont match with the majority of the population, doesnt mean that they are wrong or being exploited.

[KeithHernandez]

My experiences with both dell and other mp3 players match inevs.  I got an iPod, then my computer crapped out and I bought a mac.  I had like 4 or 5 mp3 players before, but they all broke and were huge for the gb you got.  My nano is holding up real well and I will probably get a shuffle soon.  I love the mac, what exactly are you people doing on computers?  Also, the younger people don't have problems, just saying.

[Doc]

There are ugly things that work. Plenty of them. Apple didnt make the only mp3 player, just the best one. You can find plenty of non-apple mp3 players, but they all suck.

A-Cap, I am quiet when you have your economic rants but on this point you are simply wrong. I-pods do not: Support many formats, particularly (and inexplicably) open source high fidelity formats like Ogg Vorbis which many audiophiles love, in fact they will force conversion of certain formats to their own proprietary format. They forbid a user from simply copying their own music on and off their music player, a feature found in any thumb-drive. They have had a history of battery faults and other issues. The batteries and similar I can forgive as technical issues that are still being worked through but the constraint on format and bizzare file system point to a willful decision to actually remove functionality in order to further their ultimate purpose (selling more music over their own music service). While the ipod may certainly be the most popular player around there are plenty of others that do these things that apple can't or won't do so saying the ipod is the best and everything else sucks is just stupid.
What apple has done that outclasses all other players is creating a very accessible user interface and a highly recognised brand. While both these things are important they small parts of what makes up an entire product.

Seriously, I am hanging out for the iPhone to be relased down here so I can get my simple hand held wireless internet on but just deciding what the market likes is the best and everything else sucks is just willful ignorance, there's no need to take other people's word on everything what suits the majority of people may not be what suits you.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Ok, but by that reasoning, ipods sales would be in the toilet and someone would make a media player to make your plans. Fortunately, we live in a reality where the best products sell. There simply isnt a demand for the stuff you talk about - meanwhile people spend millions on ipods. People buy what they want. Just because they arent buying what you want, doesnt mean they are wrong.
For LFM and others who claim its all a marketing scam because apple has "so much money" - Microsoft has exponentially more money than apple and their Zune is a total piece of shit and the sales reflect it.

[Ben-San]

I've heard complaints about the iPod but really no more or less than about any other mp3 player. They all have problems, it's just that the iPod is so hyped that when it has problems they stick out more. Hell, people expect Microsoft products to ship with a dozen problems now. They'd be gobstopped if one didn't.

Anyhow, that said I don't claim that my Mac is superior in any concrete way. What I will say is that while I am functionally proficient in the use of Windows, I have never found it to be a comfortable experience. If I'm sitting in my room, unwinding from a shower, and not wearing any #####, I would rather be leaned back and letting my chilis hang out in front of a Mac than a PC because it is a more comfortable and relaxing experience for me.

That said, there isn't a hell of a lot I actually need to do with my home computer: I use the Web, I legally acquire comics, TV shows, and music to read, watch, and listen to respectively, I chat on IRC, I write papers, I play open-source Roguelikes and legally acquired antique video game ROMs. Occasionally I chat with people on Skype. If I were a hardcore computer gamer, programmer, or other Person With Need For Superior Computronics there might be a problem, but since I'm not I'd rather have my computer be something I'm comfortable using.