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[Doc]

Ok, but by that reasoning, ipods sales would be in the toilet and someone would make a media player to make your plans. Fortunately, we live in a reality where the best products sell. There simply isnt a demand for the stuff you talk about - meanwhile people spend millions on ipods. People buy what they want. Just because they arent buying what you want, doesnt mean they are wrong.

I agree with the last statement there, I just think you're incorrect to define something as being the best because of demand. You're defining it as the best because it appeals to the widest audience whereas other people may define 'best' in terms of functionality or other specific needs. Value is a highly subjective thing is what I'm getting at. I might agree with you that apple has made the best product in the mp3 player space from the point of view of an IP a company would want to own but there's a distinction between that and making the best mp3 player, at least for me.

As for Mac computers I use them at work and they are fine and in many ways superior to PCs but at home I like to be able to tinker and I like to play games that aren't world of warcraft. That's just how I roll.

[CortJstr]

I know that iTunes checks for software updates weekly but they don't really happen that often. Hell, my iPod has been on 2.3 for like 2 years.

If you mean iTunes itself then that could be causing problems. It's a Known Issue that using the "Apple Software Updater" program creates incomplete installs. Always update iTunes by going to apple.com and downloading the latest installer from there. Most users will never experience an issue with the Updater, but if you use any kind of plug-in (last.fm, FoxyTunes, &c) then you're just asking for an "iTunes is not properly installed" error message.

I've actually heard nothing but good things about the Zune. There were a few issues at first but they all seem to have been addressed by the Zune 2 and software update for the Zune 1. If nothing else their scrolling system is worlds better than the iPod's.

I originally went with iPod because at the time it was the only player available in larger capacities. When I got my 37.3GB iPod the next closest player was something like 2GB. And having my entire collection with me was my make-or-break feature. So I choose to give up Ogg support, a battery that lasts more than 4 hours, and such for that one feature.

Well now I can get an 80GB Zune but I stupidly locked myself into iPod. I have an iPod dock-connector in my car so I can work the player from my stereo and charge the shitty battery. And I replaced the 20' cable connecting my computer to my stereo with an AirPort Express. At least I didn't buy an songs from iTunes.

[melack]

I've owned a PowerBook G4 for going on three years now, and literally the only problem I've had with it is that the speakers no longer work consistently. That's it. The thing still runs like the day I bought it.

Now, my second generation iPod managed to die after about 2 years of constant use. So I'm inclined to believe those might not be as reliable. But my iPod classic that I've been using every day for 6 months still works perfectly.

[Golfhaus]

I heartily disagree with the notion that the player that sells the best is the best player. The NFL team that has sold the most merchandise all-time is the Oakland Raiders. That doesn't mean they're any good; it means they've been marketed well.

I would like an MP3 player; when the time comes, I probably won't get an iPod. I'm not sure why. I just don't think I like the way they look. I have concerns about all of the reports of reliability issues. Maybe they're just too hip.

But Apple has done a good job of one thing. I don't think I want an iPod, but damned if I can think of any other mp3 players out there.

[theinevitable]

My thing is...

the ipod was, at one point, the kind of cool that is commodified and blah blah blah, useless consumerism, etc.

but it is also cool in the way I think Cognitive Psychology is cool, jazz is cool (although it as once cool in the other way, too), Jackson Pollock is cool, flickr is cool, and the St Louis Art Museum is cool.
The kind where, you see how the iPod interface works, and you say "cool!" The way I said when I was 10 and basically thought that "cool" meant "awesome!"

At this point, I do not really think the iPod is that hip. It's more like... I don't even know what the word is.
When my iPod was broken for a long time, and I used a walkman, people thought it was some kind of weird statement, or else that I was somehow massively economically disadvantaged and as a result did not have an iPod.
You can say whatever you want about how ridiculous that is, but that is not the response you get for not having something "hip." It was a smaller version of how we reacted to my friend who doesn't have a cell phone.

In addition... OK, the Oakland Raiders sell the most merchandise. And you say they are not the best team. "What is the best team, then?" I ask.
"Oh, well, the team that wins the Superbowl, or, my local team, or, the team that is best in yards rushed or completed passes,"
If you kept saying "the Oakland Raiders aren't the best football team, look at how many completed passes they had this season," I would start wondering who this other team was who had the most completed passes.

[AugustWest]

The Raiders?  Really? 

I would have guessed Dallas.

[Golfhaus]

The Raiders?  Really? 

I would have guessed Dallas.

My guesses initially were Pittsburgh (ptoo) and Dallas (barf), but when you think about it, a big black coat with a big silver Raiders logo and a brand new Raiders hat has been a staple of the average rap star's wardrobe, probably since just after The Sugarhill Gang said "up jumps the boogy to the rhythm of the boogity beat."

[Doc]

In addition... OK, the Oakland Raiders sell the most merchandise. And you say they are not the best team. "What is the best team, then?" I ask.
"Oh, well, the team that wins the Superbowl, or, my local team, or, the team that is best in yards rushed or completed passes,"
If you kept saying "the Oakland Raiders aren't the best football team, look at how many completed passes they had this season," I would start wondering who this other team was who had the most completed passes.

My position is that from a technical standpoint the ipod, like many other mp3 players, has it's share of flaws and perks. These are sufficient that I don't think any mp3 player can just be declared 'the best' on the basis of functionality (which is how I'd judge it... again 'best' is so incredibly subjective).
It is interesting how quickly the ipod has become, not exactly a commodity item but something fairly similar, like how in the early 90s all game systems were nintendos and all compact off-road cars are jeeps.

[littlefallsmets]

I will say:

If you wanna do heavy graphics stuff or video editing, Mac IS the way to go.

For anything else, though, I prefer to be able to noodle around and figure out what I like and how I like to accomplish those things... especially since the bulk of what I do is use the internet and word process and... do not have to do a whole lot of graphical or video-editing type things.

[AugustWest]

I heartily disagree with the notion that the player that sells the best is the best player.

What?  How can you say that?  Next you'll be telling me that Celine Dion and Britney Spears aren't the worlds' greatest musicians!

[Doc]

AW gets a can because he summed up one sentence what I've been trying to say for three posts. You fancy-town lawyers and your way with words.

[theinevitable]

I mean, obviously there is a point to be made there. But you can also argue that music is Art, or at least it can be, and an iPod is a device for playing music. It is a well-made thing which functions well, and its success is, to some degree, due to the fact that it is very functional.

[Victoria Waterfield]

an iPod is a device for playing music. It is a well-made thing which functions well, and its success is, to some degree, due to the fact that it is very functional.

One can say the same about Celine Dion.

[Doc]

I mean, obviously there is a point to be made there. But you can also argue that music is Art, or at least it can be, and an iPod is a device for playing music. It is a well-made thing which functions well, and its success is, to some degree, due to the fact that it is very functional.

I still say it comes back to what you define as functional. You can't play Ogg files on iPods, you can't copy your music off your ipod onto your computer, you can do both these things with (for example) an iRiver which was created as a complete iPod rip off. The user interface on the iPod is great though so in that way it has some of the best functionality.

[Choop]

Too bad the newton failed.

I've been considering an ipod touch. I basically need a portable computer for internet access and at 400 bucks the size can't be beat. Plus, I already have a phone with AT&T and I don't want something else to put in my ##### pocket, certainly nothing the size of an iphone.

My gently-used 3rd gen ipod still holds a charge and plays files without issue. It's kind of a road trip accessory.

I switched to the macbook pro a year ago and while I love it, it's frustrating at times - but you know what? so is windows, and so are unix and linux and basically what I'm saying is there is no perfect machine. I can't develop that hard-core on this box, but that's okay. My favorite IDEs are windows-only, and I hardly work at home anymore, and besides I've got a VPN connection and RDC client straight to my work desktop. It's real easy to use though, especially for web, email, irc, spreadsheets, music, movies, and simple coding. Plus, it syncs with my ipod and phone and i didn't have too much trouble setting up wifi.

As far as the free market theory is concerned, McDonald's doesn't make the world's greatest hamburger. The ipod is good, but so are others. The great mp3 player depends on your own needs and desires and what you can deign to compromise on. The ipod sells on image, and the iriver etc sell on functionality and openness. More people consider image over opensource, so the ipod won out.

If you use ogg, don't get an ipod. If you want to be stylish, get an ipod and a thumb drive to do what the ipod won't. Or reprogram your ipod, there's hacks out there for it, if you demand both.