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[jough]

For those who were wondering about the ending, here's my piece.

Neo, Smith, the Machines, Agents, the Architect, Oracle - what's it all mean?

Well, it's a binary system, people.

Neo is "the one" (1) and Smith is a nihilist who wants to annihilate all (0).

Put the 1 and 0 together to keep the world(s) in balance.

It's not exactly a matrix in a matrix, but it's obvious that Zion, the "real world" is also a computer system, and all of the "people" in it are programmes.

Of course, we knew already that Neo was a programme from the Architect's explanation in Reloaded, so it's not that much of a stretch to find that everyone and everything is a simulation.

Baudrillard, the French social philosopher whose theories inspired all three films wrote about the possibility of simulacra without a basal precedent - in other words, the "real world" could be a simulation of something to which there is no actual antecedent. The simulation does NOT have to follow an actual event - the simulation can arise purely out of the need for simulation. It's self-fulfilling.

So when Trinity died she was being deleted because she had lived her function. Her only purpose was to get Neo to the Machine Source where he could make a Faustian bargain with the machines: he will restore the desired order, put the 1s and 0s back in balance in exchange for the current simulation to continue running.

After Neo sacrificed himself to Smith (more of a Satan figure in this film than last - at the end, he was everyone in the Matrix, the devil in our own hearts) he was no longer needed either, nor was there a necessary "anomaly" - the 6th Neo will be the last Neo. It was the Oracle's choice, not Neo's. It was her gamble, and it paid off.

There may be human bodies somewhere, and they may or may not be used for power. The people only "power" the machine world like your computer is "Powered by Windows XP".

Notice the Architect's words at the end: all will be freed who WANT to be. Those who are aware of their state of reality. Those who attain a satori and have achieved enlightenment.

All who accept Jesus Neo into their hearts will be freed.

[jay-ell]

I don't know.  Apparently, there is going to be a follow-up animated short that explains everything.  In one sense, I think you're reading a bit too much into it, Jough.  I mean, obviously Neo's a Christ figure, duh.  And I, too, suspected that Neo and Trinity were both programs.  But if they are, then who the hell is real?  Seems like if they're programs simply because they were "deleted" after their purposes had been served, everybody in Zion would likewise have fallen over dead after their "liberation" -- because they all played a role in getting Neo to the proper place at the proper time.  No, I think that either Neo or Trinity was real, but not both.  And I believe that humans, as well, have a purpose, and that only in death can we be certain that that purpose was fulfilled.  

I think that if you need a follow-up animation to explain three full-length films (plus a video game, plus a half-dozen or so animated shorts, which were all intended to fill in the gaps), you should just make films that make sense in the first place.  Instead, I spent the whole movie waiting for a resolution that never came.  I was OK with things not making sense, hoping that they'd all be explained in the end, but so many things in this movie seemed purposeless and chaotic.  That's not what I go to the movies for; I can get that at home.

[slink]

I was happy with the ending as was. My only hope for any more Matrix is because at the end I just thought, "Oh, damn, it's finished now".

I certainly agree with the possibilities of the binary system, that is all clear. And the possibility of Neo being a program, that too is a fairly apparent. In fact, the Architect says it himself in Reloaded, telling Neo of the designs of his five predecessors.
I think there is  possibility of the 'real world' not being quite so as well, but I am unsure as to whether the brothers actually intended that route as such. I feel that in there wish to open it up to a wider audience, those who wouldn't pick up on certain things, that they may have to some extent made it such an open possibility. If so, I am not sure that it was intended for certain, but an open choice to be made by the viewer.
That's one of the things I liked about it, it took a Donnie Darko type view of, 'you work it out, and what you work out is one possibility, but not the only one'.
A small thing yes, but I don't believe the people who can be freed from the Matrix now are those who accept Neo, I think it's just those who become aware that they are in it. As in the first, it was said that some people refuse to accept it, and only those can be freed.
Although, having said that I'm beginning to agree with you, since I think, from the end, that Neo is essentially the Matrix now. I think what the machines did to him at the end, giving him that quantity of power, diffused him throughout the whole of the Matrix, allowing him to defeat all the Smiths from within. And that's why he's not actually dead - as the Oracle said, she expects to see him again.

Well, there's about a million other things I could ramble on with, since the amount of sheer information, and references in the films go on and on.
But suffice to say for now, I was happy with it.

[slink]

You know Jough, I think you're right.
Reality is another level of program. It just is beginning to look that way solidly the more I think about it, leaving less and less possibility of anything other. It just doesn't quite feel right...
But it explains some of the things the Architect said in Reloaded, as well as of course Neo's abilities. It plays with it in terms of many philosopher's stated possibilities of reality, but there is the possibility that it's just a SF Fantasy film not straight SF.
But as I say, I'm certainly coming round to it being a deeper level program, in whch the machines and humans are unaware. Though I think the Architect,   being more a program in reality that in the Matrix (since he must have been there to construct it, and is blatantly a program) is aware of it. Hence he knows certain things about it. And he wouldn't tell either the machines of the humans, because he achieved a balance of sorts for so long outside the Matrix.

*ahem* It is. In Reloaded, the Architect's screens display things happening in what we are led to believe is reality. How else could he view such things?
So the question now - Did the Architect write 'reality' too?

[V-Adore]

I think that if you need a follow-up animation to explain three full-length films (plus a video game, plus a half-dozen or so animated shorts, which were all intended to fill in the gaps), you should just make films that make sense in the first place.

This is my general assessment of the Matrix series, yes. But I do like Jough's binary explanation -- it's very poetic, even if I'm not sure I can buy it as accurate.

[AugustWest]

Apparently, the number of words written about the Matrix series is inversely proportional to its cinematic quality.  View this thread, the 2000 words or so Lileks spends on this piece of dreck and countless other diatribes across the electronic media.

Jeez 'o Pete.  It's a pretty movie, but the writing sucks.  Nuff sed.

[slink]

Jeez 'o Pete.  It's a pretty movie, but the writing sucks.  Nuff sed.

Well, fair enough.
I'm just someone who's favourite fiction genre has always been Cyberpunk. I'm bound to be a little biased, but as mentioned in the original thread, I tried to dislike it, but utterly failed to.

[Limmo]

*Sigh*

[AugustWest]

I'm bound to be a little biased, but as mentioned in the original thread, I tried to dislike it, but utterly failed to.

Well then I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I shall have to shoot you.

[Limmo]

Well then I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I shall have to shoot you.

*Siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.*

[andalucia]

Yeah, I wondered about where the philosophical premise of the trilogy slunk off to-- the first one had some fairly explicit allusions: "Welcome to the desert of the real,", from the first film, that's Baudillard, isn't it?  Of course, that all went down the drain... grr.

[jough]

I was going to reply, 'lucia, but I had to walk away from the computer for awhile and now I don't remember what I was going to say.  Something about Baudrillard and how they seem to have skimmed "Simulacra and Simulation" and just pulled out some direct quotes from it for some cool-sounding dialogue (interestingly enough, I read a paper where someone could tell the exact *edition* they must have bought due to the exact wording of the translations).

Anyway, my point was really brilliant and tied many threads, concepts, and ruminations together in an enlightening and entertaining way.  But now I've forgotten.

Sorry.

[AlohaDawg]

I saw it today. It ended about an hour ago and so I finally read this thread. I thought possibly the writers put together a fusion of philosophy that muddled together too many things and maybe that is why it's hard to make sense of it all.

Remember, there is no spoon. In fact, quite probably there was no anything. I think perhaps the whole and entire thing was a simulation - a game between the architect and the oracle. The final exchange between the Oracle and the Architect, though, seemed to belie a relationship between adversarial equals....perhaps two aspects of the mind of the Creator of the whole thing?

I could argue for the movie being about Good vs Evil; Logic vs Emotion; Destiny vs Choice; Technology vs Humanity but there are arguments for and against it all and it left me confused. I thought the main characters were all more or less Archetypes - Faith (Morpheus), Love (Trinity), Salvation (Neo), Wisdom (Oracle), Intelligence (Architect), Despair and/or Hatred (Agent Smith), Reality (Machines), Emotion (People).

I guess my assignation of labels in this way belies my leaning toward messianic fablery in the Christian tradition of Faith, Love, Sacrifice, Suffering and, ultimately Redemption. But the Balance of the one and the nil in Neo's battle against the ulimate nihilist in Agent Smith is an awesome explanation, the good and evil struggle within us all.  And the "faustian deal" as mentioned above that he strikes with an (anthropomorphic!!) (deity-like!!) Machine could just as easily been described as a Gethsemane-like negotiation/resignation...If, after all, if the Architect created both Neo and the Machines then Neo is,  ultimately, appealing to (his Creator? Father?) the Architect for the redemption of his very Creation and the people in it who choose to believe....at least, on a Sunday it looks that way to me.

It was interesting to me that the Indian program(mer) had faith in Neo as well. He deconstructs words like "Love" and "Karma" to a basic understanding of what they represent to the heart of humanity, and in doing so, more or less unifies the world's many faiths and faithful behind a figure representative of redemption for all people through faith... not necessarily "Christian" faith, but belief in love, and hope, and the future, represented by his daughter, slated for deletion because her programmed function was not necessary. Although it was beautiful, as evidenced in the colors of the sunrise on the first/last day.

I liked the movie, the SCORE was OUTSTANDING and the visuals, awe inspiring. My objections were picky little things.

Off to bed. What dreams I'll probably have....