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@achewood I once had the idea that, if only for a moment each night, everyone in the world was asleep at the same time. It made the world manageable.

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Author Topic: achewood thanksgiving  (Read 11393 times)

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slink

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2003, 09:46:02 pm »

Thanksgiving eh... Yeah...

Ah well.

And I just helped edit a book about Aboriginal film making (mainly Canadian) with a whole section on the horror that was Dances With Wolves.
Remarkably interesting book, as was the speech given by Matthew Coon Come at our last conference (he is the current National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations). While it was a depressing speech in all, it was also depressing seeing the Canadian High Commission reaction to some of what was said, since the High Commissioner and his cronies come every year, as do the Quebec crowd.

Anyway. All this Thanksgiving crap is foreign to me.
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andalucia

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2003, 09:47:43 pm »

Quote from: "side _ show"
I seem to notice there's a sports team called The Red Skins, but no sports team called The Blackies, and also, at my local Canadian sovienier shop there are some extremly racist cupie dolls with feathers sticking out the top of their heads, and don't even get me started on Dreamcatchers...


Rad political writer Ward Churchill wrote a great essay about this.
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Noah

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2003, 11:44:03 pm »

Quote from: "AlohaDawg"

 If you want to put a sharp point on it. I remember when I was in grade school we were allowed to

1) say the word Indian when not referring to someone named Rajiv
2) play cowboys and indians
3) trace our hands, cut them out and make indians (along with turkeys)
4) sit "Indian Style" (no longer a concept; my daughter sits "criss cross applesauce" in pre-school
5) hang up Indian Corn
6) enjoy a glorious indian summer day in October or November


I was in Kindergarten only 8 years ago...and we did almost every one of those things. And most of the kindergarteners I know say 'indian style' etc.
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AlohaDawg

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2003, 12:59:11 am »

Really? It is hard to believe that this remote outpost in the pacific actual has some kind of "enlightenment advantage" over any other place in the US.
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Noah

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2003, 03:20:38 am »

Well, I DO live in Kansas...Hawaii's probably much more liberal.
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side_show

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2003, 03:43:11 pm »

Quote from: "andalucia"
Quote from: "side _ show"
I seem to notice there's a sports team called The Red Skins, but no sports team called The Blackies, and also, at my local Canadian sovienier shop there are some extremly racist cupie dolls with feathers sticking out the top of their heads, and don't even get me started on Dreamcatchers...


Rad political writer Ward Churchill wrote a great essay about this.


I was actually thinking of this essay when I mentioned the above.  I was one of two aboriginal students at a highschool where our team was the "Warriors" and all team uniforms, school jackets and even my diploma had a stereotypical guy in a feathered head dress.  It was so great to work so hard and get straight A's only to be reminded that I am actually a warring savage.
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V-Adore

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2003, 02:12:25 am »

An only child here, too. The big excitement of Thanksgiving was, well, eating early and getting to drink Kool-Aid out of the good glassware. (And always getting offered wine by the folks -- I wonder what they would have done had I accepted?)

The saddest thing is probably that the Achewood kids' table, even being just LN and Philippe, would still be nicer than the adults' table. Eventually LN would drop the persona and they would be all like talking about kid things, and meanwhile Lyle would be hitting Todd over the head with the stuffing server...
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doomglobe

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2003, 07:20:18 am »

oh man I slept like 14 hours after thanksgiving. (musta been the 3 or so bottles of wine I drank)
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revdj

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2003, 01:03:22 pm »

Quote from: "Smells"


I seem to notice there's a sports team called The Red Skins, but no sports team called The Blackies, and also, at my local Canadian sovienier shop there are some extremly racist cupie dolls with feathers sticking out the top of their heads, and don't even get me started on Dreamcatchers...


The essay was very interesting.  Talk to me about the Dreamcatchers.
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side_show

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2003, 03:14:25 pm »

Quote from: "revdj"
Quote from: "Smells"


I seem to notice there's a sports team called The Red Skins, but no sports team called The Blackies, and also, at my local Canadian sovienier shop there are some extremly racist cupie dolls with feathers sticking out the top of their heads, and don't even get me started on Dreamcatchers...


The essay was very interesting.  Talk to me about the Dreamcatchers.


Well, dreamcatchers have a certain level of the sacred about them which you can research on your own, and I tend to be filled with a lot of misgivings at how they've been made "cute" and rendered into something made and sold at craft sales by people who tend to know very little about Aboriginal culture.  There's a huge amount of over simplification all around and I find the fact that my ancestor's heritage is regularly turned into quaint decorations for the creativly impaired is extremely insulting and disrespectful.  This is not to say that only Aboriginal people can understand or take knowledge from this spiritual realm.  There was a mass genocide of my family enacted by the Candian government.  I'm not talking about way back when Columbus and his gang arrived, I'm talking about my parents and even some of my own generation - my mom and one of my bestfriends were both taken from their parents and placed with European white families in a government institued attempt to anihalate our racial heritage this happened to thousands of Aboriginal families it was called "the scoop," and occured fromt he 60's strait through the 1980's.  I grew up around some extremely damaged and self hating people, and like a lot of aboriginal people of my generation I tend to carry a great deal of sadness and feeling of loss about all this horrible history.  Unfortunatly there are some reservations where molestation, rape and abuse are the norm - where the amount of violence once enacted from the outside has now turned inward.  My bestfriend got beat up on the rez for being one of the only kids who WASN'T being molested.

With all the pain and loss that comes from what has occured in the very recent past, it's just hard to accept the scraps of my spiritual roots being sold to the uncomprehending masses be it dreamcatchers or sweetgrass.  Just like 9/11 memorial souvenirs, the intent behind these things isn't nessisarily bad, but it's just not apropriate, it's a big raw gaping wound that can't be fixed with band-aids.

Like I said - don't get me started.
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revdj

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2003, 03:50:49 pm »

Quote from: "Smells

Well, dreamcatchers have a certain level of the sacred about them which you can research on your own, and I tend to be filled with a lot of misgivings at how they've been made "cute" and rendered into something made and sold at craft sales by people who tend to know very little about Aboriginal culture.


I was told that Dreamcatchers, specifically, were pretty much made to be sold at craft sales.  That they are analagous to "Chop Suey" a "Chinese" dish that was never actually made in China, but something that Chinese restaurants sold to Americans.  

That is one of the reasons I was interested - you seem to be saying that I'm misinformed, that there is actual an authentic history behind dreamcatchers.

Doug
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Paisley

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2003, 04:15:34 pm »

Quote from: "V-Adore"
[...] meanwhile Lyle would be hitting Todd over the head with the stuffing server...


Or, more in character, stuffing Todd into the turkey while Teodor is distracted with preparing the next course.

Todd: "H-h-h-ey, you b-b-b-better stop it, Lyl-mmmph!"

Lyle (yanking on Todd's tail): Looks like Teodor forgot to pluck the third turkey leg!

Mr. Bear: Lyle! Stop! Stop this instant[/]!"

Lyle: Shaddup, I'll put you in there, too, doilies 'n' all.

Todd: Mmmph!
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AlohaDawg

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2003, 08:09:20 pm »

Smells wrote an interesting post about heritage and the loss of it above - it's interesting pondering what happened to the indigenous people of North America and living in Hawaii. Here many of the remaining aspects of a powerful spiritual culture is mass-produced and sold to Japanese and American tourists. In some ways it's one of the few ways that a displaced culture can rebuild it's cache in the modern era: charge for it.

Of course the misguided europeans don't understant the religious/spiritual aspect of Dream Catchers. Nor do they understand the language of Hula. Nor do they comprehend the thousands of years of history in the heiaus and giraffeponds of Hawaii and the rest of the Pacific. Hips and hand gestures and piles of stone to most people. That's sad in and of itself.

If a culture can preserve it's ways, educate it's young in them and make a little money which can return to benefit them, I think that may be a good as any place to start. I think it would be far worse if the only dreamcatchers in existence were in museums and only white people were around to look at them.

The forced diaspora of your people (the 'scoop' you described) sounds particularly horrible. I also find it horrible when non-aboriginal people engage in and profit from aboriginal culture. Add to the problems that you described high rates of depression, joblessness, alcoholism, drug use and disproportionate incarceration and your use of the term genocide seems more appropriate. I think that the culture and the language are both the roots and the fruit at this point, though. They can pull people together and give them the common footing they need to work together to build a more just society for themselves, and also at least in the short term, the culture can make some money to develop programs to continue the work those people do.

Although the sheer amount of money the Mormon church makes on Polynesian culture makes me sad, I also know of Native Hawaiian artisans and Hula teachers and Language specialists who are creating a contemporary Hawaiian culture. Rooted in the past and looking toward the future of Hawaii and Hawaiians. This is something I never saw in the Native American culture on the mainland. And I realize that history dealt the Native Hawaiians a different hand then the Native Americans but the idea that there was a future for the culture and the clear efforts to build toward it really are breathtaking. The balance of Sadness about what happened with Hope is beautiful. I saw so little hope on the mainland among Native Americans, mostly anger, and tragedy in terms of health, education, and opportunity. What happened here was not good; what is happening here could, I think, lead to a true renaissance of a contemporary, true Hawaiian culture for the Native Hawaiians.
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pmcd9

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2003, 10:17:54 pm »

Well this thread sure went to shit.

~Paul
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andalucia

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achewood thanksgiving
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2003, 10:41:26 pm »

Dreamcatchers are one of those things that were specific to a particular culture (in this case, the Objibwe/Chippewa), but have become incredibly debased into meaninglessness by commercialization.  See also those "Lucky Buddha" figurines, which aren't the Gautama Buddha but actually Hotei, one of the Seven Immortals.  Trouble is, people just dont care.
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