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[pmcd9]

A friend of mine went to the recent signing in Seattle not to see Onstad (he had never heard of him), but rather to see Tony Millionaire.  Apparently there were a few people there to see Millionaire, but the line was out the store to see Onstad.

I think at this point that it's safe to say that Onstad is big.  Not Webcomic big, but just big. 

[littlefallsmets]

Really?

I guess I am fatally 20th Century but it is hard to imagine that the guy with the television show (sure, on late-night cable, but a television show) is the smaller celebrity than the dude with the online comic strip that updates twice a week if we're lucky.

Is this some sort of weird way that living in Los Angeles, having held some bottom-rung entertainment industry jobs and having many friends who still do, is actually putting me behind the curve, still thinking of the creative zenith as fundamentally involving having a film or a television show made of your property? Is it a provincial Los Angeles thing... am I living on a reservation for the last people deluded enough to try and make money in the old media... or is it just my upstate New York hick showing?

ANYWAY:

If Onstad is really that big, it would probably be more creatively productive if he did the whole thing for pay... but this Mister In-Between split-focus stuff seems to be unproductive, anyway. Maybe it is wrong of me to feel this way but, to me, it is more important that Achewood is good and frequent than it is that a person who signed a book for me once and was nice and pleasant while doing it but I don't know in any meaningful way is making the maximum amount of money off the work.

This is probably a terrible way to consume media, morally, I suppose.

[autrepoupee]

I was a pretty consistent poster on Assetbar, the free version at least, and I am pretty sad to see it (most likely) go away forever and ever.  A nice little community had been built up, more or less, and some extremely funny things were posted alongside madmens' screeds about _____.

I have no beef with the fan-flow, I just thought it was destined to not make that much money.  It would reach a saturation point, everyone who wanted to pay for it would, and then just sort of bottom out.  Then again, last time I thought about it, it (along with the main site) were being updated maybe once every week and a half--unless you count updates about what was soon to be updated.  Things are moving more quickly now, at least that looks to be the case for the premium content.   So the way I saw it, no one saw new Achewood content, therefore no one would pay for the premium service other than the initial subscribers.  Not that we're all discussing the premium subscription...

Anyway, just pouring a block of text out for the loss of Assetbar, on the nearest and most related internet curb.   

[Dangermoose]

Damn this quandary. It would all be a lot simpler if the internet itself just sold t-shirts, with all revenues going to the internet.  I would buy a several amount of such t-shirts and sleep well at night.

[wombat]

Well now I am very cross that there was a whole other forum of crazy people talking about Achewood and I missed it. I would have at least checked it out once in a while.

I guess I am fatally 20th Century but it is hard to imagine that the guy with the television show (sure, on late-night cable, but a television show) is the smaller celebrity than the dude with the online comic strip that updates twice a week if we're lucky.
 

A guy with a TV show had a shorter line than someone who has just published BOOKS? Hear hear.

The lines have been reported to be out the door for Onstad at all his signings. You could search this board for my story, where my friend, also a published author, insisted that NO ONE in NYC has a line for their book signing, and then when she showed up, wanted to cry.

We've had exactly this conversation before though, and it doesn't change LFM's mind that there is something wrong with Onstad's business model.

[dejavroom]

Well, a lot of people do webcomics as a hobby or as a supplemental income at best. I'd say that for the vast majority of people, it's a labour of love where the minor tee-shirt sales or ads or whatever MIGHT cover the webhosting costs, some art supplies and an extra couple of dinners-out a month and that's it.

Which still makes it commercial, only on a small scale. Let's try this again:

When you say you see no problem in people making a living off "commercial" art, then it follows that there must be another type of art that, I'm assuming, you would think it's not ok to make a living off. Otherwise, why make the distinction? This, and only this, is what I'm asking. Of course, if this is a topic you don't feel particularly interested in talking about, that's cool too, but for Nice Pete's sake, just be clear about it...

[CortJstr]

I had to stand in line at signings for both Terry Pratchett and Lewis Black. However neither of those were in NYC.

[AugustWest]

I don't give a shit about Onstad's business model.  Since I am neither a family member of his nor a stockholder in his enterprise I do not stand to make a profit or suffer a loss either way.  Obviously it is financially viable enough to allow him to adequately support his family.  So I don't think the strip will be ending because he can't make a living at it -- he has been for years now.

I'm a lot more concerned that he's bored with Achewood and the webcomic format.  What has he been producing lately?  Fewer and fewer strips and more and more little essays, vignettes or character studies which show up in the fanflow.  I think Achewood's in a lot more danger from Onstad's creative ennui than from a failure to generate revenue.

[R2DTrousers]

That's autrepoupee. I know her.

I know autrepoupee.

[littlefallsmets]

I'm a lot more concerned that he's bored with Achewood and the webcomic format.  What has he been producing lately?  Fewer and fewer strips and more and more little essays, vignettes or character studies which show up in the fanflow.  I think Achewood's in a lot more danger from Onstad's creative ennui than from a failure to generate revenue.

See, my concern is completely with Achewood too and... I see the causation not as some kind of writer's block but as... dude's concentrating on the material that people are paying money for, i.e. the vignettes essays character studies in the fanflow, and THAT'S why the strip is suffering. It's understandable, of course, but it's also completely ass-backwards to EITHER making the dude money long-term OR keeping the Achewood strip viable.

When the strips were the focus of the content and anything else was gravy was obviously when the strips were the dude's priority.

They're not. He got himself in a place where the strips are throwaway ads for the miscellany that he charges for and... it sucks.

wombat:

but... Tony Millionaire has produced many many books. and ALSO a teevee show. I dunno. I guess our culture, especially our cult culture, is changing fast.

deja:

there's art that you're trying to make primary income off of... and there's art that you're just putting out there for its own sake and if you happen to make money off it, that's gravy and just a side-effect of getting it distributed, but it's not your career/vocation/etc.

people who are doctors or teachers but they paint and put the paintings up in a local gallery just to get them seen, people who play in little bar bands on the weekends with comfortable day jobs, just making up the cost of equipment and travel and such, people who self-publish comics just to run the regional comic/sci-fi show circuits and have little adventures, etc.

when one becomes the other, either going up the ladder or going down the ladder, things get weird.

I'm sorry if my choice of terminology was imprecise but that particular semantic is kind of incidental to what I'm actually trying to say, hence not really focusing on it.

[pmcd9]

What has he been producing lately?  Fewer and fewer strips and more and more little essays, vignettes or character studies which show up in the fanflow.

That sounds to me like he's preparing to write a screenplay.

[wombat]

I had to stand in line at signings for both Terry Pratchett and Lewis Black. However neither of those were in NYC.

There are lines for signings for all kinds of people all over the place, sure. The point was, NEW YORK. There is so much competition for events and so many famous people and so many writers that in my friend's neighborhood in Brooklyn, which was where the signing took place, everyone and their dog-walker has published a book. It's not easy to impress people enough to make them want to stand on a line.

What really made her want to cry was when she said "I want to know who is PR person is so I can hire them" and I told her that he didn't use a PR firm to get that long line.

Anyway, as far as his creative process or whatever, he's always been obviously someone who wanted to do other things in addition to a webcomic. For all we know, his time is going into some other project that we haven't seen yet, and like any artist who changes direction, some fans will follow and some won't. Or he may be taking a break and mostly mowing his brand new lawn with his brand new lawnmower like his Facebook posts suggest... but sometimes that's part of the creative process too so I am willing to have patience.

[dejavroom]

I'm sorry if my choice of terminology was imprecise.

I'm not sure I'd blame imprecision. Especially, also, with the addition of this other distinction: "intellectually":

I understand that the guy's gotta make a living and, intellectually, I am all for people figuring out how to make a living off of commerical art.

...it seems rather fastidiously precise, but hey. Is Phillipe still five?

[wombat]

when one becomes the other, either going up the ladder or going down the ladder, things get weird.

But many if not most creative people at least start out with a day job before they can make their art their career. This is a totally normally transition, what is weird about it? And what makes you think Onstad didn't start out with the hope of someday making a living?


LFM - and remember, I only yell because I care - why not quit the logical contortions and admit that your problem with Onstad charging money for his art is that you are envious.

[AugustWest]

See, my concern is completely with Achewood too and... I see the causation not as some kind of writer's block but as... dude's concentrating on the material that people are paying money for, i.e. the vignettes essays character studies in the fanflow, and THAT'S why the strip is suffering.

I don't think it's writer's block -- he's still producing.  I just think he's getting to the point where he's done all he can with these characters and the only way to explore them further is through longer written pieces.