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[jay-ell]

Greetings, board regulars and newbies! I am your local Den Mother, co-founder and one of five admins on this board. I've seen a lot of new users who have come over from Assetbar who can't understand why we, the TOUAMBies, seem to have such a problem with what we (not-so-affectionately) refer to as "the assbar," so I'd like to take a moment and explain.

First, however, let me say that while we're not big fans of Assetbar in general, we welcome individual users with open arms. We're an established community here, and we all know each other already, but we're always happy to see new users who can contribute to our conversations. And though we've been accused (exclusively by trolls) of being intolerant of minority opinions, we do in fact have people of all political and philosophical persuasions here - devout religious adherents and atheists; liberals, conservatives, and libertarians; humanists, feminists, and objectivists, to name a few. We love spirited debate, and remain one of the last remaining places where you can blow a whole afternoon arguing with people on the internet with relative anonymity.

Still, we have a few prejudices. We tend not to like people who can't spell or use proper grammar. And we tend to be wary of anyone from Assetbar, which is probably unfair. By way of explanation, here's a bit about our history. I hope this makes sense to our newcomers.

Back in 2003, when the world was new, there was a message board called Dumbrella. On this board was an Achewood fora, and Onstad himself was the moderator. The board regulars - including myself and some others who are still active here - became friends and started occasionally drifting off-topic. (OK, more than occasionally.) Additionally, while we were all drawn together by a mutual love of Achewood, we more often than not disagreed (and still usually do) about which strips were good, and which ones were "meh." Onstad, working hard on launching his career as an artist (the comic was not quite two years old at the time), abruptly and unceremoniously decided to close down the board. Our Fearless Leader, Jough, generously volunteered to host a new board, and I was elected co-admin. We lived in relative peace and harmony until four years later, when Onstad decided to start AssetBar. We, the fans who have been there buying t-shirts and hoodies from the beginning, felt betrayed. And we passed that bitterness and betrayal on to you, the AssetBar user!

Hope this clears some things up for our newer members and guests. As an historian, I believe it's important that we all know our message-board heritage. 

[greenkoolayd]

grassyass

[littlefallsmets]

If you genuinely wanna interact in an awesome way with people who are too internet-old for flame wars and board wars and other such, a retirement home for message-board veterans, welcome aboard!

If you are a troller just pretending to want that to get initial benefit-of-the-doubt, good riddance and try to not suck any dick on the way out to the parking lot.

(note: I was not actually around here from the Dumbrella days but I have been through a few similar places with similar cycles and, to quote one of the sages, "I've been around this track a couple of times and now the dust in startin' to clear".)

[bluemoon72]

Thanks, jay-ell!  Glad to know how this came to be; also glad to be one of the good ones from Assetbar.

[rowboat]

We lived in relative peace and harmony until four years later, when Onstad decided to start AssetBar. We, the fans who have been there buying t-shirts and hoodies from the beginning, felt betrayed. And we passed that bitterness and betrayal on to you, the AssetBar user!

OK. This is kind of helpful. I mean, it clears up more than the brief, daddy issue-ridden Asherdan version (not that I didn't enjoy that one, too). But I still don't understand this "betrayal" business. It would be understandable to feel betrayed when he closed down Dumbrella. But after that you dusted yourselves off and got this going and everything was fine. Why would his starting another one a few years later count as a betrayal? I mean, if things were so good here, why would you even care? It just smacks of insecurity masquerading as superiority, is all. I'm sure it feels good to know that you were there from the start and there is something to be said for that, but newcomers are every bit as essential to the ecosystem. I mean, if not for "newbies" like me (constant reader since July '07) filing in, what would be his incentive for even continuing the strip? He's not gonna keep pumping it out just so the OGs have something to chuckle over. It's a business that must expand to continue and we are integral to that.

OK. I'm not going to get all huffy over this. I see what you're saying. Just know that if there is strife between the boards, we, the assetbarbarians, are not the authors.

P.S. Our spelling and grammar are just fine. If there wasn't an edit function here there would be just as many flubs as there are on the 'bar.

P.P.S. Just an aside - jay-ell, if that was you who reposted this over on assetbar, I would advise you to not list yourself as an "old female," even if you happen to be one. That is the default setting and when old school 'barbarians see that we immediately assume that a troll is behind it. I know you don't spend much time over there, but if you ever post there again be advised.

[rowboat]

....I would advise you to not list yourself as an "old female," even if you happen to be one.

And a quick scan of your profile shows me that you aren't an old female anyway, so it really makes no sense.

[Bobby Isosceles]

OK. This is kind of helpful. I mean, it clears up more than the brief, daddy issue-ridden Asherdan version (not that I didn't enjoy that one, too). But I still don't understand this "betrayal" business.

Truth be told, I don't see it either. The man provides free content on his own schedule. Some of that free content (feedback) was being taken away. It was provided elsewhere on someone else's dime. That's like getting spiteful because the McRib went away and you went and got a Krusty McRibwich and then the McRib came back too.

[jay-ell]

Well, I am female, and old by internet standards. But I don't visit Assetbar, pretty much ever. Some of our members do, but I'm hardly ever even here, let alone anywhere else. So it definitely wasn't me that reposted, but now I'm curious as to who did. Anyone care to 'fess up?

Regardless, the "betrayal" comes from the feeling that Onstad threw us out because he didn't want to moderate a message board, and then, a short while later, decided that message boards fuel sales, so instead of coming to us, the established fan base (and, pre-assetbar, the only Achewood board on the 'net), he started something that would directly compete.

It's like a kid who threatens to take his toys and go home, and then you find out later that when he did leave in a huff, he went over to some other kid's house to play, instead. It's not the other kid's fault, but for some reason, the other kid is the one we blame - not the brat who wouldn't share his toys in the first place.

[Bobby Isosceles]

Regardless, the "betrayal" comes from the feeling that Onstad threw us out because he didn't want to moderate a message board, and then, a short while later, decided that message boards fuel sales, so instead of coming to us, the established fan base (and, pre-assetbar, the only Achewood board on the 'net), he started something that would directly compete.

This is the part that I don't get. Directly compete? With what? No one in TOUAMB sells achewood merchandise. Onstad does. More participation on TOUAMB doesn't bring Onstad money in a direct, measurable manner. Assetbar does. There is no opportunity cost to be members of both. In fact, there is no cost whatsoever.

So where is this competition? You're talking about a group of people that can use two free services about a free webcomic.

More importantly, if message boards fuel sales, and there's bitterness about the messageboard thing, don't buy anything. If you are going to buy from him no matter where he sticks his message board, then you have explained to yourself why he didn't "come to you, the established fan base": because you were already solid customers and he was looking to expand to a different audience of people. Pandering to the base only works in politics. Business requires compromise and expansion.

[wombat]

No, we're talking about something like two people who are having a party on the same night. That kind of competition.

[Bobby Isosceles]

No, we're talking about something like two people who are having a party on the same night. That kind of competition.

So hit both parties. Hell, one of you technical folks can write something like what they use when someone wants to have a conversation on facebook AND twitter by cross-posting everything. The opportunity cost is low: you may spend five minutes here and five minutes there.

OR MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A GRAND SUMMIT WITH SEVEN DAYS OF RITUAL

[littlefallsmets]

There's something distinctly creepy about a dude throwing a hissy-fit because people have constructive criticism and don't always talk about him every little second... takes his ball and goes home... and pretty quickly, he's monetizing the ball and creating a place where the level of discourse is suspect at best, is crafted to squash nuanced critique and anything other than talking about him and the whole thing is remade into a transparent funnel toward merchandising sales.

Nothing illegal or necessarily unethical about that change but...

It's a bit fucked-up. At least a little mercenary, at least a little narcissistic. Especially from a dude who had been treating these guys like casual friends and equals on some level up to that point.

Had it been transactional from the start, the sense of betrayal might've been much less but... dude had been treating these fine folks like conversation partners for a while and then... nothing... and then an invitation to go to a new place and be treated like revenue streams.

I wasn't there but I can definitely see how that'd be messed-up and would sting in a more-than-superficial manner.

[dejavroom]

There's something distinctly creepy about a dude throwing a hissy-fit because people have constructive criticism and don't always talk about him every little second... takes his ball and goes home... and pretty quickly, he's monetizing the ball and creating a place where the level of discourse is suspect at best, is crafted to squash nuanced critique and anything other than talking about him and the whole thing is remade into a transparent funnel toward merchandising sales.

Nothing illegal or necessarily unethical about that change but...

It's a bit fucked-up. At least a little mercenary, at least a little narcissistic. Especially from a dude who had been treating these guys like casual friends and equals on some level up to that point.

Had it been transactional from the start, the sense of betrayal might've been much less but... dude had been treating these fine folks like conversation partners for a while and then... nothing... and then an invitation to go to a new place and be treated like revenue streams.

I wasn't there but I can definitely see how that'd be messed-up and would sting in a more-than-superficial manner.

For the love of God and all His good creatures in the world, please shut the fuck up...

[littlefallsmets]

I'm just sayin', man. I think that's part of the resentment of the Assbar.

Your mileage may vary but that doesn't mean you gotta flip out on a dude.

[jay-ell]

There's something distinctly creepy about a dude throwing a hissy-fit because people have constructive criticism and don't always talk about him every little second... takes his ball and goes home... and pretty quickly, he's monetizing the ball and creating a place where the level of discourse is suspect at best, is crafted to squash nuanced critique and anything other than talking about him and the whole thing is remade into a transparent funnel toward merchandising sales.

I had forgotten how LFM can just take a metaphor and run with it, run such as Forrest Gump would run if someone slipped methamphetamines into his box of chocolates, because you never know what you're going to get, when you start a metaphor with LFM around. You don't get that action on Facebook, that's for darn sure.

I say this with the greatest affection, LFM. I know it probably sounds like I'm being sarcastic, especially after 'vroom's comment, but I swear I am 100% sincere in saying that...it's not the most efficient way to make a point, but it sure is fun.