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[jay-ell]

Yeah, Pedro made an appointment to be evaluated for ADD when we were in college, but he missed his appointment and never rescheduled. Significant? Probably.

My main problem is that I can't see the trees for the forest, actually. I can look around the house and go, "OK, these are the things that need to be done." And before I had kids, this worked well - I'd see a project (e.g. painting the living room) and I'd set aside time to do it.

But now, well, I'm lucky to have fifteen minute blocks of time in which to accomplish things. I can't take half a day and just plow through things. And I can't do projects (like painting the living room) with toddlers running around getting into shit. (Sometimes literally.) So I'm having trouble getting anything done at all, because I can *only* see the big-picture stuff. I can see that I need to "clean the kitchen," but breaking that down into its component pieces (unload dishwasher, load dishwasher, wash pots and pans, wipe down countertops) is more difficult. In other words, it's a lot easier for me to say, "I'm going to remodel the living room today" than "I have maybe ten uninterrupted minutes while the kids are coloring quietly, what small task can I accomplished right now that will get me closer to my long-term goals?"

Obviously, I should be able to focus long enough to unload the dishwasher. But the problem really isn't my attention span, I don't think, it's the fact that I have two little children who are constantly interrupting my workflow.

I need to find a way to allow me to make the most of the opportunities I have that is not dependent on being able to schedule things in advance or not be interrupted in the middle. Is there a way to do that? Or is it just a matter of waiting for my kids to get older and go to school or learn to not play with knives? Experienced parents, help me out here.

Oh, and for the record, my mom just tells me I need to "work harder." Whatever that means.

Tried to post this earlier, but my WiFi went down and I was posting from the bathtub so I couldn't reboot the router. In the meantime, this:

yeah no way would jay-ell be into such as a fat nerd with a laziness issue, pedro's a cool mofo and a master of the elementals

Pedro is a wonderful guy, but we got married young and he never had his own place. He went from having his mom pick up after him to having me to do it, so he never quite got the hang of how to do laundry and such. He knows this. He works hard, and he has learned to follow recipes and do dishes properly, but it has taken 8 years for him to reach the point where he's comfortable doing housework and not worry about being yelled at for doing it wrong.  Also, he works outside the home, and I don't, so I just naturally end up doing more of it than he does. We're all equal-opportunity in theory, but in practice, I feel bad making him clean when he gets home at night because he just spent all day in the office. It's all very "Father Knows Best," in spite of ourselves.

[wombat]

Yeah, Pedro made an appointment to be evaluated for ADD when we were in college, but he missed his appointment and never rescheduled. .

LOL. Efficient way to get a diagnosis, really.

He works hard, and he has learned to follow recipes and do dishes properly, but it has taken 8 years for him to reach the point where he's comfortable doing housework and not worry about being yelled at for doing it wrong. 

Are the one yelling at him? Because the most important rule is what we think of in the Wombat household as the "Shut up and eat it" rule, because it's mostly applied to cooking dinner, but it applies to all other chores.  The rule is that if the other person actually does the job, you have to just shut up about it and be glad he did it. If you don't like the way he does it you can do it yourself. But then you can't complain about him not doing it, either. It is one thing to expect the other person to carry his load, and entirely another to expect him to perform according to some detailed standard of your own. Maybe you have learned to apply this to chores but need to also apply it to organizing/scheduling/making the household to-do lists.

Also, although I am not a parent, my observation is that yes, until your kids get a little older you just need to cut yourself some slack.

[jay-ell]

Are the one yelling at him? Because the most important rule is what we think of in the Wombat household as the "Shut up and eat it" rule, because it's mostly applied to cooking dinner, but it applies to all other chores.  The rule is that if the other person actually does the job, you have to just shut up about it and be glad he did it. If you don't like the way he does it you can do it yourself. But then you can't complain about him not doing it, either. It is one thing to expect the other person to carry his load, and entirely another to expect him to perform according to some detailed standard of your own. Maybe you have learned to apply this to chores but need to also apply it to organizing/scheduling/making the household to-do lists.

Also, although I am not a parent, my observation is that yes, until your kids get a little older you just need to cut yourself some slack.

I used to yell at him for not doing things the same way as me. (Not actually yell, mind you, but he felt scolded.) I am admittedly a bit of a control freak in that regard. However, we hashed this out very early in our marriage, and now I respectfully request that he change his methods only when he's doing something that is actually a Problem. Like when he washed all our clothes in fabric softener instead of laundry soap.

How do you apply the same tactics to organizing/accomplishing tasks, though? It seems like if he won't even look at the list I made and choose a task to do on Saturday afternoon, there's not much room for any kind of collaboration. The only other option is for me to just do it all myself (since he generally doesn't do things around the house unless he's instructed to).

This refers mainly to things that fall outside the day-to-day activities. He'll clean the kitchen nightly, but it doesn't occur to him that the furnace filters need changing, or what have you. So how do you divide up those tasks so that they all get done while maintaining the "live and let live" approach?

[wombat]

You want help making the list, or just getting the stuff done? It seems like you are the person with the listmaking skill and perhaps his role in this should be, you hand him a list that says "change the furnace filters" and he does it by the end of weekend. I suspect he would rather change the furnace filters than deal with making the list, yes?

[jay-ell]

He does not like making lists, nor does he like being told what to do.

STALEMATE.

[bluemoon72]

He does not like making lists, nor does he like being told what to do.

STALEMATE.

If you can get this figured out, clue me in, 'cause I'm in that exact same situation.  My solution seems to be leading to divorce, quite honestly. 

[Carlos del Vaca]

I've been working on this guy's system recently - mostly for work.

I am a big proponent of GTD.  It is "keep a to-do list of everything" on steroids.  List the shit out of that shit, and then when you have time to do stuff, you ask yourself:  What's most urgent?  What can I get done given the resources I have on hand (i.e. am I at a computer, do I have internet access, do I have a phone)?  How much time do I have right now?  Am I feeling up for a challenging task, or do I just want to knock out low-hanging fruit?

I also like his rule, "When something comes in that will take you two minutes or less to do, do it NOW."  That's the point where it's diminishing returns on flagging it and coming back to it later.  If you can bang out a reply to that e-mail in 45 seconds, just frickin' do it.  Wish more people did this.

As a result of this system, my stress level is usually directly proportional to the number of to-do items and/or flagged e-mails I have at the moment.  Fortunately, the best cure for that stress is to GO GET SOME SHIT DONE.  Works out well.

[wombat]

Well, as for the stalemate, all I can say is that, A, it is a violation of the the Shut Up And Eat It rule to refuse to either make the list or do the list you hand over.  And B, what seemed to help was making it an explicit rule and invoking it explicitly on a regular basis. Like when I start to complain that the pasta is overcooked I will stop and say "oops never mind I am going to shut up and eat this and be glad I didn't have to cook it myself."

The thing about this rule is that it appeals to both sides, it solves both problems - that you see things that need to be done, and that he is tired of being nitpicked about exactly how things are done. It is hard not to nitpick because if you are the one who sees the needs, you tend to have a precise idea of how those needs should be addressed. You have to make sure you are holding up your end of the deal too.

But God knows I am the last person you should be asking for relationship advice, seriously. And also, I have a spouse who actually enjoys doing some of these things, like changing furnace filters, so your mileage may vary.

[bluemoon72]

This sounds very much like my sister's approach.  Lists, lists, and more lists; break down the tough stuff into quick stuff, and do the quick stuff now.  It seems to work for her.  Since I'm a book-buying freak (I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 books?) I will buy this one post-haste.  Thanks for the recommendations, the both of you!

[jay-ell]

I have co-opted the children into working with me. ...I remember all the hours I spent similarly with my father, they are happy memories.

This is brilliance.

I do this sometimes, but I think I need to invoke this more often. I mean, yes, I let Boy One sort silverware and throw things in the washer from time to time, and as long as Girl has a chair to stand on and a sink full of water, she's happy.

And I guess there are some days when you just can't win. I mean, last week Boy One had a meltdown because the washing machine was running. Literally laid on the floor kicking and screaming just because I turned the machine on. It was absolutely inexplicable and out of left field, especially since he usually loves laundry. (Until very recently, he used to lie on top of the running washer with a pillow and blanket because the sound and vibrations were very soothing to him.) I haven't been able to wash clothes while he's home and awake since - if I even open the laundry room door now, he cries. Don't know what to make of that.

It's better than it used to be. He used to scream when I started the dishwasher in our last apartment; the one in our new house is much quieter.

People tell me that it's harder with a special-need child, and I guess this is why? But I dunno, he seems like a mostly-regular kid to me, so it seems like I should be able to find ways around this more easily.

[smick]

It is my firm belief that you cannot fight the swarm.

I list and list and list.   I used to carry a small notepad with me to list on.    The list is the only thing that fights the swarm, because it breaks the swarm down into individuals and gives you a place to start.

[AugustWest]

I was going to respond to this thread but I kept forgetting to.  I'll tell you about my organization system later, when I get around to it.

[Carlos del Vaca]

People tell me that it's harder with a special-need child, and I guess this is why? But I dunno, he seems like a mostly-regular kid to me, so it seems like I should be able to find ways around this more easily.

Change Is Bad for a lot of kids, not just special-needs.  Our daughters had an absolute shit fit last week when we moved the cereal from one cabinet to another.  Cate even announced that she would Never Eat Cereal Again until we put it back where it was.  (To which we of course said, "OK, no cereal for you then."  And of course that boycott lasted maybe 36 hours.)

[jay-ell]

Change Is Bad for a lot of kids, not just special-needs.  Our daughters had an absolute shit fit last week when we moved the cereal from one cabinet to another.  Cate even announced that she would Never Eat Cereal Again until we put it back where it was.  (To which we of course said, "OK, no cereal for you then."  And of course that boycott lasted maybe 36 hours.)

Okay, here's the difference: my son will actually not eat things if they come from the wrong place. When his favorite crackers changed their packaging, he stopped eating them. Entirely. He will do this to such a degree that at one point he was about six weeks away from being put on a feeding tube due to having such a limited diet. He will literally starve himself if he doesn't have the "right" foods available. He's in occupational therapy for this and has gotten much better, but he's got a long way to go before he's eating anywhere near what an average picky-to-normal child would eat.

I don't want to make this a contest about whose kids are more difficult. I'm just saying, he takes things that every kid does and carries them to an extreme. And sometimes, those things make it impossible for me to have clean underwear, and I don't know what to do about that (besides do laundry at midnight when he's sleeping).

[lprkn]

I'm not an organized person, so I think the best that I can do is give you an internet hug.

*hug*