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[wombat]

And I don't mind doing the housework myself, as long as I can actually get around to doing the housework, you know?

Right, but hiring someone solves the problem that you don't have the time just as much as it solves the problem that I hate doing it.

This solution is not so good for the house repairs though because in my experience with that kind of stuff, even if you can afford to pay someone to do it, it can take as much time to find someone and hire them and make sure they do the job, as it takes to do the job yourself.

[jay-ell]

Regardless, we can't afford to hire stuff out, with the aforementioned exception for lawn maintenance. Believe me, if the money were there for it, I'd find it. It's just not.

[bluemoon72]

Things are broken that we need to fix, and managing the projects is the real challenge. Nights don't offer enough time, and Pedro doesn't like to do them on weekends because, in his mind, Saturdays are for fun and frolic.

Goodgracious, I know this very, very well.  To my husband, weeknights are out because his work is very stressful, and weekends are out because they are for fun and relaxation.  We could afford a housekeeper, but unfortunately he has "stranger issues" and won't abide a person who is not family or friend in our house--especially when we're not here.  He did agree to have someone come in in the evenings while we're home, but there's really no one around I can find who's licensed and bonded AND willing to work evenings.

My creative suggestion for you, jay-ell:  do you have friends or neighbors in a similar situation--kids, not a bunch of extra money, and little free time?  If so, why not form a house cleaning brigade?  In desperation last week, I had a good friend over to help me clean to prepare for my parents visiting from out of state this past weekend.  Turns out it's a lot more fun to clean with someone.  And she and I are good enough friends that it didn't embarrass me when she was standing in my shower cursing at the inch-deep soap residue and the hair in the corner behind the shampoo bottle, you know?  Between her coming over two evenings and my work Sunday before the folks arrived at my house, we got about 9 hours of cleaning done, and my house hasn't looked better in years.  Maybe you could do a rotating cleaning and potluck evening a couple times a month, and the more people involved the better.  Like a swarm of house elves scrubbing and vacuuming and mopping while the kids keep each other company.

[miles]

He knitted me a fuzzy loincloth and matching bra.

I'm currently making him a sweater.

This is the definition of dudeknitting.

[JorgeFabregas]

You know there is another way to approach at least some of these things, and that is to throw money at the problem. We have a housecleaner come every other week. It is a very good investment in domestic tranquility, given the number of arguments that just don't happen because of it.  It doesn't get everything done, but at least there is a set of things that just never have to even get discussed.

A friend of mine on another board (who reminds me a bit of wombat) once said

Related to "I'd be willing to pay extra for that":

Several years ago, Jose Canseco was on The Surreal Life (he was actually the sanest person living in that house, except for maybe Corey Hart, Pink's husband/ex-husband). The housemates were assigned to landscape a yard and build a playhouse for a battered women's/children's shelter in an afternoon. As you would expect, this group of half-assed celebrities was not capable of organizing and carrying out this assignment in the alloted time, and were getting to the point where it looked like they weren't going to finish the job before the women and kids were brought in to see it at the end of the day. So Canseco says "how much is it going to cost me to get us out of this?" He was just going to call in a crew, and pay them whatever it took to get the job done.

My sisters and I now use "to Canseco" as a verb meaning "to throw as much money at the problem as is necessary to just get it done". As in "what are we going to do about all those weeds in our yard?" "I vote we just Canseco it". Or "it's going to be a pain in the ass to keep making pots of coffee for everyone coming to this brunch." "Let's Canseco it; just get a bunch of those starbucks carry-out boxes."

I offer this coinage to you all. Go forth and use it wisely.

[Choop]

poor cory hart, he used to be "corey hart, you know, sunglasses at night, that guy"

[wombat]

  We could afford a housekeeper, but unfortunately he has "stranger issues" and won't abide a person who is not family or friend in our house--especially when we're not here. 

I call bullshit on this.

So you're saying he isn't willing to do chores on his own, he isn't willing to do chores cooperatively and/or when asked, and he won't "allow" you to hire someone else to do them because of some childish "issues"?  Perhaps this is a person who needs to consider whether he wants to live on his own instead of having the pleasure of living with another human being.

[JorgeFabregas]

poor cory hart, he used to be "corey hart, you know, sunglasses at night, that guy"

Carey. Carey Hart.

[bluemoon72]

I call bullshit on this.

So you're saying he isn't willing to do chores on his own, he isn't willing to do chores cooperatively and/or when asked, and he won't "allow" you to hire someone else to do them because of some childish "issues"?  Perhaps this is a person who needs to consider whether he wants to live on his own instead of having the pleasure of living with another human being.

Yep, this is all true.  Hence the earlier comment about heading toward divorce.

[jay-ell]

My BFF is in a situation kind of like this. It's gotten to the point where he will verbally abuse her about her perceived faults in front of their eight-year-old, even after she asks him to take it behind closed doors.

I am trying to be supportive no matter what she decides, but she is sort of at the place where she can't make a decision one way or the other, so instead she just takes the abuse from him and then calls me crying and I don't know what to tell her besides what she already knows - that she either needs to get into counseling and fix things (he won't go and she is not taking the important step of going alone) and or just give up and call a lawyer already.

I love her dearly, but he has beaten the confidence out of her to the point where she will not help herself. It's tragic.

[bluemoon72]

It's weird, because he's not verbally abusive to me whatsoever...he's very respectful of me, even when I succumb to a rare fit of rage, fly off the handle, and veer toward being verbally abusive toward him.  He just refuses to entertain any other needs or wants beyond his own.  So I guess you could say in his extreme self-centeredness, he's unintentionally emotionally abusive.  I'm a really easy-going person, who believes in letting people be themselves, and that people shouldn't try to "change" other people, so I've always just accepted and loved him how he is and appreciated his other good qualities rather than stewing over the feeling of being controlled, and becoming a doormat.  Over the years I've thought about leaving many, many times; however, I've always come to the conclusion that marriage takes work on both people's parts, and there's no such thing as perfection, and thus I've been relatively content.

It's no coincidence that when I started being friends with greenkoolayd a couple of months back is when I started re-questioning what the hell I'm doing in my marriage.  Not because I want to leave my husband and run away with green, but because by knowing him I've been re-exposed to so many great qualities that I realized I have really been fooling myself about not needing in my life...qualities such as a giving spirit, interest in other people, and a romantic heart.  I hope to find someone with some of those qualities someday as a life partner, someone who will also want what I have to give, which is an unending well of love, compassion, and zest for life.  And if I never do find that person, well, at least I'm opening myself up to the world again and taking care of myself.

The end.  (I know, TL/DR, right?)


Edited to add:  Good gracious, I'm probably embarrassing the hell out of greenkoolayd.  I'm sorry if I did, Tones!

[R2DTrousers]

Not because I want to leave my husband and run away with green

Hah. I was skimming this and thought you meant green as in 'cash'.

[wombat]

OK, just so we're all clear, there is no worse reason to leave a relationship than because of some person you only know on the internet. That being said...

I think you should go ahead and hire a housecleaner and see what happens. I suspect you will learn a lot from his reaction, and whether that reaction is good or bad, it will probably be stuff that you need to know. And if your marriage falls apart at least you'll have a clean house while it happens.

The Technical Staff actually hates having the housecleaners come, incidentally. He does nothing but complain about the massive inconvenience involved - like not being able to leave the sink full of dirty dishes, and that they come the day after the trash is picked up and then go around and put more trash in the trash. Horrors. But if he's not going to take two hours to clean the house himself every other week - and he isn't - I say tough shit.

[dejavroom]

And if your marriage falls apart at least you'll have a clean house while it happens.

Ding, and ding, and ding.

[Arachno-capitalist]

You have succeeded in making me paranoid about cleanliness when living with a lady. I had underestimated the impact of cleanliness on a relationship, probably because I have only lived with dudes. And when living with dudes the conversation of cleanliness comes down to "Dude this place is a mess, you clean up your shit and I'll clean up mine.... annnd break"
Or some friends have just given one of the roommates a break on rent if they take on the clean up duties of common areas.