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[CortJstr]

http://www.daisyowl.com/comic/2009-12-11

It's so wonderfully Seussian. I don't get why Steve is opposed to the comparison.

[pmcd9]

I want to see this thing built.  That would be FRIKKIN' AWESOME!!!!

[Choop]

why is it dumping to mention seuss. seuss may have been silly but the world needs silly, and seuss was a Good. Dude.

[jay-ell]

It would be less Seussian if he hadn't described it in rhyme.

[dejavroom]

Even less if the owl hadn't continued the rhyme for him.

Steve's contraption reminds me of this:

[Mr Trout]

That is a pretty cool relics cover. Mine looks like this:



I'm assuming the drawing is vinyl and the photo is from the CD release?


edit: research indicates my assumption was correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relics_(album)#Cover

[bluemoon72]

why is it dumping to mention seuss. seuss may have been silly but the world needs silly, and seuss was a Good. Dude.

With the minor exception of this:  http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/1aa/1aa291.htm

Excerpt:  However, it is Dr. Seuss's portrayal of the Japanese that is most disturbing. His Japanese characters don't represent Hirohito or any other well-known World War II figure, in contrast to his obvious pictures of Hitler. Instead, Minear wrote, "...Dr. Seuss draws 'Japan' - piggish nose, coke-bottle eyeglasses, slanted eyes, brush mustache, lips parted (usually in a smile)." He went on to say, "Perhaps it is no surprise that American cartoonists during the Pacific War painted Japan in overtly racist ways. However, it is a surprise that a person who denounces anti-black racism and anti-Semitism so eloquently can be oblivious of his own racist treatment of Japanese and Japanese Americans. And to find such cartoons - largely unreproached - in the pages of the leading left newspaper of New York City and to realize that the cartoonist is the same Dr. Seuss we celebrate today for his imagination and tolerance and breadth of vision: this is a sobering experience."

[Choop]

well, sure, but nobody's perfect. and during that war, everybody was doing whatever it took to beat back the bastards and bring our boys home. in light of all the work seuss did trying to eliminate prejudice and increase tolerance, that one misstep is forgivable; the metaphor i want to use here is an intentional foul just before halftime to protect your team's lead (shaq can't sink 'em from the line). fouling isn't cool, but it can be understandable given certain contexts.

[theinevitable]

I love how even the good guys in WWII were fucked-up racists. fuck.

I am a strong proponent of the "once you start doing what the enemy does (torture, assassinate, whatever), YOU AREN'T THE GOOD GUYS ANYMORE" concept. Although my more "sophisticated" friends laugh at this, because they are cynical assholes.

there has to be some sort of line that I can be happy with between cultural/historical relativism and absolute moral judgment, but I haven't found it yet.

[greenkoolayd]

I love how even the good guys in WWII were fucked-up racists. fuck.

I am a strong proponent of the "once you start doing what the enemy does (torture, assassinate, whatever), YOU AREN'T THE GOOD GUYS ANYMORE" concept. Although my more "sophisticated" friends laugh at this, because they are cynical assholes.

there has to be some sort of line that I can be happy with between cultural/historical relativism and absolute moral judgment, but I haven't found it yet.

all heroes have flaws, dude.  all we can do is take the good ideas and run with them, while leaving the bad ideas in the burn pile.

[theinevitable]

yeah, but at the same time, I want to be able to think that like, anti-semitism in Iran is wrong, even though that is normal there. Or telling your daughters they can't go to school.

It seems like you can't have historical relativism without extreme cultural relativism. And I don't like that at all.

[jay-ell]

As an historian (I'm sorry, I know that sounds pretentious), I have come to believe that Wrong is Wrong no matter what your culture and historical period tell you. The best example is slavery in America. From a modern standpoint, few would argue that slavery is wrong. Yet at the time, it was commonplace and socially acceptable, even respected by many. Still, that doesn't make it right - and a clear indication that it was very, very wrong is that it ended. Enough people spoke up and opposed it that, eventually, finally, and at great cost, it was finally put to rest.

Sure, there are things going on today that are wrong. And those things, too, will end - eventually, finally, and probably at great cost. They are wrongs in other cultures and wrongs in American culture, and this is where relativism blinds us - not into falsely believing that past rights were wrongs, but into thinking that modern wrongs are right simply because we are among the perpetrators. And we won't know how wrong they were until they are eradicated, and our grandchildren look at us and shake their heads and judge our misdeeds.

The key, then, is to take the past very seriously; the present, less so. 

[theinevitable]

you are a smart lady.

[jay-ell]

you are a smart lady.

I went to school a long time.

But I bet you $1 there is someone here who will argue with me, and do a pretty good job of it.

I'll still be right, though.

[wombat]

yeah, but at the same time, I want to be able to think that like, anti-semitism in Iran is wrong, even though that is normal there. Or telling your daughters they can't go to school.

This board is famously good at wandering threads, but it's not every day that you check in on a thread titled "Sousaphone" about a comic about a bear and an owl and two little children, and find a page of messages starting with a post about civil rights in Iran.