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[AlohaDawg]

I don't exactly claim some form of linguistic or literary satyriasis myself, I just think language is standard for a reason. It's so as many people as possible understand.

St Z is totally correct about writing for dialectual atmosphere, though. That should come through because there is a major difference between technical writing and literature.

But the G-D'ed NEWSPAPER? That should show some class. And writing for journals or for business should show some too, and I've seen some shoddy stuff.

If ever I get to hire people, they will have to, as part of their interview, produce two pages of writing. I had to do it for this job and I think that is a very important attribute. It demonstrates several crucial abilities at once.

Of course, there are those who would challenge it in court because it somehow skews the playing field.

[slink]

And writing for journals or for business should show some too, and I've seen some shoddy stuff.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've dealt with for the Journal.
I mean, as part of copy editing, for instance, you would not expect to have to replace non breaking spaces for what should have been a tab routinely throughout someone's paper.
And that's not even getting into the spelling and grammar.


(edit - apostrophising: see below)

[AlohaDawg]

And writing for journals or for business should show some too, and I've seen some shoddy stuff.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've dealt with for the Journal.
I mean, as part of copy editing, for instance, you would not expect to have to replace non breaking spaces for what should have been a tab routinely throughout someones paper.
And that's not even getting into the spelling and grammar.

Repairing people's formatting is probably the most annoying thing ever.

I just noticed that I am editing my posts in this string much more closely. Psychologically, I am a sheep.

[St_Zartan]

I just noticed that I am editing my posts in this string much more closely. Psychologically, I am a sheep.

I like how a thread whose very title contains a typo has become a totally rockin' Language SWAT Team Throwdown 2K3 pay-per-view event. I like that almost as much as the word subjunctive.

Has anyone left here not been a copy editor at some point in time?

[slink]

I like how a thread whose very title contains a typo has become a totally rockin' Language SWAT Team Throwdown 2K3 pay-per-view event.

Has anyone left here not been a copy editor at some point in time?

Title of the year!
And I think everyone else, not having a vested interest, just ran away after the third post on this topic.
I almost don't blame them!

[V-Adore]

I've copy-edited, albeit not in any particularly prestigious publications. The most recent incident was as a side product of doing layout on a minor publication. That said, this thread rocks my socks.

I have great sympathy for those who attempt to write regional accents, although I would perhaps have more sympathy if they were more competent at it. The "throw a whole bunch of apostrophes in and call it a day" style is particularly vexing, since it makes things unreadable without actually making them in any way authentic.

[St_Zartan]

I've copy-edited, albeit not in any particularly prestigious publications.

Don't sell yourself short. I would hardly call copy editing my fuck*ng high school newspaper ten years ago the apex of prestige and credibility. One day, though, I shall have to share with you all some of the wonderfully bad documents library patrons leave saved on the public machines. The best of them are just wrong on every level, as though the English language threw a carpet-chewing fit.

I have great sympathy for those who attempt to write regional accents, although I would perhaps have more sympathy if they were more competent at it. The "throw a whole bunch of apostrophes in and call it a day" style is particularly vexing, since it makes things unreadable without actually making them in any way authentic.

When people writing "Southern accents" have someone use y'all for the second-person singular... arrgh. Marvel Comics' Rogue is always a delightful train wreck of the Pidgin Express. Has anyone ever looked at one of those "accents for writers" books? I've always had a tickle of curiosity but then, you know, eh, lazy.

[slink]

The "throw a whole bunch of apostrophes in and call it a day" style is particularly vexing, since it makes things unreadable without actually making them in any way authentic.

Problem is it works well for the writer, who can see how it's supposed to sound. So it matches up fine for them.
But when you don't know what accent they're after it falls flat on it's ass.
The other thing, which I just thought about it, is that it's a pedantic way of writing something that defies pedantism. Every apostrophe is like an apology to broadcast English, when a regional accent should just fly in the face of it.
You cannot speak Cornish and feel ashamed of it when faced with English.

[CortJstr]

Now my spelling is so bad it would make a teacher weep but I can get picky. I detest the fact that so many news anchors and papers have misused the words "hacker" and "cracker" that they are now completely worthless for their original meanings. I know that meaning changes with usage but Dan Rather and the Chicago Tribune shouldn't be spear-heading the effort.

All of you should check this out: http://www.theslot.com

[V-Adore]

One day, though, I shall have to share with you all some of the wonderfully bad documents library patrons leave saved on the public machines. The best of them are just wrong on every level, as though the English language threw a carpet-chewing fit.

I can buy it, and I'd be curious to see some of the train wrecks up close and personal. God only knows that my few experiences with publically-saved documents have tended to resemble an explosion at the Horrible Writing Factory.

When people writing "Southern accents" have someone use y'all for the second-person singular... arrgh. Marvel Comics' Rogue is always a delightful train wreck of the Pidgin Express.

Oh, God, incorrect use of "y'all"... gah. Just gah. (Although I will admit that I have Y'All Envy, as it were; I wish that standard English had some sort of clear second-person plural of its own, because I desperately want to use "y'all" in its proper place, but I am well aware that it's basically unacceptable.)

[St_Zartan]

I wish that standard English had some sort of clear second-person plural of its own, because I desperately want to use "y'all" in its proper place, but I am well aware that it's basically unacceptable.

This is exactly the argument I use when people roll their eyes at my use of the word y'all. I love this word. Second-person plural is useful, and certainly not as potentially offensive as "you people" or as Electric Company as "you guys" or whatever.

[jay-ell]

I don't know what y'all are talking about.  'Round these parts, "y'all" can be singular, plural, or both simultaneously.  Don't even get me started on "y'all two."  

Most of the people who make the distinction between "you" and "y'all" are transplants, myself included.  Then again, I can only speak for Carolinians.  Texans and Georgians are an altogether different species when it comes to accents.  Hell, we've got a group of Native Americans here (they're still fighting for official tribal status) that still speak with a distinct British accent.  Other locals have picked up bits and pieces of their linguistic idiosyncrasies , too.  You've not been to the Carolinas unless you've heard an American refer to a shopping cart as a "buggy" or the trunk of a car as the "boot."  

And how many of y'all have your picture "made" instead of "taken?"

[AugustWest]

NO!  BAD JL!  NO COOKIE!

"Y'all" is never singular!  "Y'all" is second person plural. PLURAL, PLURAL, PLURAL!  The only southern place where they use "y'all" as a singular pronoun is Southern California.

"Y'all's" is second person plural posessive ONLY!  Anybody who uses "Y'alls" as a second person plural pronoun must be some kind of carpetbagging Yankee.

[/Southern Dialect rant]

I think good grammar and spelling indicate consideration for one's reader.  They are the tools of the effective writer.  If I want to communicate my message with clarity and precision, I must master the rules of grammar and spelling.  Strunk and White rawk!

Clever style is helpful, too.

Since we're flaunting resumes here, I have journalism degree an am a former staff writer, copy editor, managing editor and editor-in-chief.  Now I'm an attorney and spend much of my time drafting statutes and regulations which require a high degree of precision.  Contracts, policy statements, press releases and agreements also must be exact.  When I'm not writing that sort of thing, I'm trying to persuade a judge, jury or hearing officer with compelling arguments or thoughtful briefs.

In my free time I post a bunch of BS for y'all to read.

[wombat]

I was reading this and feeling like maybe y'all just needed to relax a little.

But then I remembered that just today I got a wonderful email of praise from someone who's sort of one of my bosses, and on whom I have a terrible crush on top of that - and yet it was just slightly a tiny little bit spoiled for me because he spelled 'judgement' - EXACTLY THE WAY I SPELL IT ALL THE TIME.  What is more, the dictionary I checked calls that a 'variant' of 'judgment', not even a misspelling.  But in my old field we had to write that word all the time and it had to be always spelled the latter way, so it seems wrong to me the other way.  

But, see,  maybe I just need to relax a little too.  I don't think I'm a better person because what should have been otherwise pure joyfulness was affected by someone's spelling.

I also remembered that I once worked as a copyeditor too.

[jay-ell]

"Y'all" is never singular!  "Y'all" is second person plural. PLURAL, PLURAL, PLURAL!  The only southern place where they use "y'all" as a singular pronoun is Southern California.

"Y'all's" is second person plural posessive ONLY!  Anybody who uses "Y'alls" as a second person plural pronoun must be some kind of carpetbagging Yankee.

Hey, I said I could only speak for Carolinians.  I've heard NC natives do this.  Granted, the ones that use "y'all" as an all-purpose substitute for "you" don't tend to be the smartest turnips on the truck.  But seriously, correct or no, The Singular Y'all is common usage in certain parts of the state, giving rise to such gems as "all y'all," "y'all two," and my personal favorite, "y'all guys."