Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AugustWest]

The Obama administration, despite saying they were going to fix shit like that, pretty much didn't. 

FWIW, the lag time on changing Federal rules and regulations is enormous.  I they'd have starting trying to change the rules on day 1 of the administration it's doubtful that the new version would be in effect yet.

[Mr Trout]

Planet Money had a god podcast this week examining just why all of these regulated industries have been going through crisis lately. The conclusion they drew in regards to oil was that the regulators had some pretty huge conflicts of interest. The same agency responsible for making sure that the drilling is done safely, collects the revenue from leasing the land that BP is drilling on. There's no explicit bonuses, but the more money flowing into an agency the easier the lives of those people are.

[Arachno-capitalist]

An agency collecting money from the industry it regulates is not exactly a stunning revelation. In fact I can't think of one that doesn't work like that.

[AugustWest]

An agency collecting money from the industry it regulates is not exactly a stunning revelation. In fact I can't think of one that doesn't work like that.

True, however, what matters is where the money goes after it's collected.  Do the licensing fees go in to the "General fund" or are they earmarked somehow for the agency.  Virtually always, at least in state government, revenues go into the general fund.

[linear]

FWIW, the lag time on changing Federal rules and regulations is enormous.  I they'd have starting trying to change the rules on day 1 of the administration it's doubtful that the new version would be in effect yet.

This is true.  Of course, this also brings to mind the question of how much could they change even if they really wanted to?  And do they even really want to?  Oh sure, all of a sudden everyone is pro reregulation, but had this not happened, we would have probably gone for at least a few more years with essentially the same regulatory mechanisms and climate for big oil.

The oil spill is kinda bad.  The 11 dead workers isn't that great either.  But the real problem, the real travesty, in my mind, is the fact that BP, year in and year out, acts as a giant sink, sucking up wealth and power from people who have less, and redistributing it to people who already have enough, in some cases way more than enough.  11 dead workers is small potatoes compared to how many people die every day due to not being able to afford health care due to not having enough money and power to get it.

Sorry, I didn't set out to hijack this thread.  Feel free to split this off if anyone seriously wants to discuss this. 

My position is that hey, free market blah blah blah and trickle down blah blah blah is all BS.  work hard and pay your dues and you can be not poor too.  People who are poor - it's all their fault.  No, not how it works.  In a hierarchical eco-system, there are small giraffe and there are big giraffe.  By definition, not every small giraffe can grow to be a big giraffe.  The system doesn't work that way.  There is no such thing as equality.  There is only oppression.  And you know what, no, not everyone is equal.. some people have a little more skill, work ethic, and plain dumb luck than others.  But does that make them less deserving of health care or a nice house or any of that than others?  Does that make them more deserving of an obscene amount of wealth and power than others?  Fu#k no. 

[linear]

FWIW, the lag time on changing Federal rules and regulations is enormous.  I they'd have starting trying to change the rules on day 1 of the administration it's doubtful that the new version would be in effect yet.

This is true.  Of course, this also brings to mind the question of how much could they change even if they really wanted to?  And do they even really want to?  Oh sure, all of a sudden everyone is pro reregulation, but had this not happened, we would have probably gone for at least a few more years with essentially the same regulatory mechanisms and climate for big oil.

The oil spill is kinda bad.  The 11 dead workers isn't that great either.  But the real problem, the real travesty, in my mind, is the fact that BP, year in and year out, acts as a giant sink, sucking up wealth and power from people who have less, and redistributing it to people who already have enough, in some cases way more than enough.  11 dead workers is small potatoes compared to how many people die every day due to not being able to afford health care due to not having enough money and power to get it.

Sorry, I didn't set out to hijack this thread.  Feel free to split this off if anyone seriously wants to discuss this. 

My position is that hey, free market blah blah blah and trickle down blah blah blah is all BS.  work hard and pay your dues and you can be not poor too.  People who are poor - it's all their fault.  No, not how it works.  In a hierarchical eco-system, there are small giraffe and there are big giraffe.  By definition, not every small giraffe can grow to be a big giraffe.  The system doesn't work that way.  There is no such thing as equality.  There is only oppression.  And you know what, no, not everyone is equal.. some people have a little more skill, work ethic, and plain dumb luck than others.  But does that make them less deserving of health care or a nice house or any of that than others?  Does that make them more deserving of an obscene amount of wealth and power than others?  Fu#k no.  These f#cking CEOs are not that f#cking special.  Anyone earning more than 100k a year is obscene.  Anyone who disagrees is wrong. 

[Arachno-capitalist]

Hahahahahahaha!

Yeah that was some quality trolling. I lol'd.

[linear]

I'm not trolling. 

yeah man... these CEOs... they're just dumb people like you and me, only difference is, they're dumb people with even more money.  This in some ways typically makes them even dumber. 

100k a year... 100m a year...  while meanwhile there's kids starving in China for want of 100 dollars a year.

[greenkoolayd]

I'm not trolling. 

yeah man... these CEOs... they're just dumb people like you and me, only difference is, they're dumb people with even more money.  This in some ways typically makes them even dumber. 

100k a year... 100m a year...  while meanwhile there's kids starving in China for want of 100 dollars a year.

your menstruating heart
it aint bleedin enough for two

[Arachno-capitalist]

while meanwhile there's kids starving in China for want of 100 dollars a year.

You realize that there will be starving people whether or not a CEO gets paid a million dollars a year, right? Theres no connection there, its not a zero sum game, kiddo.

[theinevitable]

tell that to bill gates. he seems to think spending his money is making a difference.

[linear]

not a zero sum game?  Are you sure?  You should elaborate on that argument.

With respect to CEOs being paid a million dollars or not, is it the fact of the CEO being paid a million dollars or not that does or doesn't impact the life of some starving kid, or, is it the overall system that results in the CEO being paid a million dollars that impacts the life of the kid?

[linear]

i'm not ignorent just because I knows what that you don't

[theinevitable]

so you are saying that there is no such thing as a global economy? economic actions do not effect anyone? this seems insane. Like, isn't the concept of economics that money moving around does things.

like, if my dad donates part of his paycheck to some organization that helps kids who are starving in china, how is this not an example of those two things being related?

I am saying this in a stupid way, but, you are not actually saying anything. You are not actually saying anything about why what he is saying is stupid, you're just calling him an ignorant piece of shit.

Which makes you an asshole.

[linear]

I appreciate the deconstruction, and I agree with it, except I'm not sure his statement makes him an asshole, not 100% anyway..  We're kind of mixing subjectivity and objectivity... We're evaluating objective arguments in part with subjective perception of the people making those arguments, and it is true that in some respects I am a rabble rousing shit.  This is more true from some people's perspectives than it is from the perspectives of others...

I think that everyone should be required to write a two page essay on how the world works.