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[wombat]

And when I say that cartoon is sort of throwaway shit, I just mean that pitching it as a 'greatest generation' vs. 'slackers who are taking the easy way out and milling around in front of the local B of A branch' is pretty simplistic.

That cartoon seems like bullshit to me. Who occupied Iraq and Afghanistan? Did everyone miss the fact that an Iraq veteran ended up in the hospital when the police shot tear gas and rubber bullets at Occupy Oakland?

Not to downplay what the World War Two generation did, but I am inclined to believe that if you somehow transported these kids today to that moment in history, they would rise to the occasion in the same way. People have no choice but to play with the hand they are dealt.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Even that, though, presumes a lot of luck and a lot of preparation for your life that was set in motion by your parents and whatnot.

I don't buy it.

Even if "exploit it" wasn't ethically wrong, I don't buy it. We all presume that who we are comes from the sweat of our backs and it just doesn't.

Even saying "well then, just cheat, asshole" presumes a past position from which cheating is possible.

Things are too fucked for most people to even have a platform from which to cheat unless there was a whole set of dominoes stretching back long before their birth.

My single parent was a nurse who had leukemia. Her dad was an electrician. There were no dominoes and none of these facts influenced my future in a positive way. You're a cool guy, but this kind of self defeating rhetoric does no one any good.

[wombat]

Here's the thing: Not just who your parents are but who you are makes a difference. ACap is the kind of person who could pull himself out of of whatever muck he started in, and that's great, but not everyone is like that. I want to live in a society where even the mediocre and below can make some kind of a decent life with their mediocre and below skills, and this is purely out of self-interest:  I don't want them trying to steal my stuff, you know?

[Nabubrush]

My single parent was a nurse who had leukemia. Her dad was an electrician. There were no dominoes and none of these facts influenced my future in a positive way. You're a cool guy, but this kind of self defeating rhetoric does no one any good.

Your situation does not equal everyone else's situation. My single parent was also a nurse, and lo and behold, she also ended up with leukemia.

Her dad was a haberdasher, though, so maybe that's the difference.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Here's the thing: Not just who your parents are but who you are makes a difference. ACap is the kind of person who could pull himself out of of whatever muck he started in, and that's great, but not everyone is like that. I want to live in a society where even the mediocre and below can make some kind of a decent life with their mediocre and below skills, and this is purely out of self-interest:  I don't want them trying to steal my stuff, you know?

That social construction is working out great for Greece. I want to live in utopia, too, but its not practical, it does not work.

[wombat]

I don't think what I am describing is utopia. In the not so distant past in this country, people with a high school education could support their families with a job in a factory. If only the exceptional can have a decent life, it's not going to be a decent life for long even for the exceptional.

[Nabubrush]

I agree with Wombat. Calling the situation where the average person can have a decent life Utopia . . . that's not good.

[pmcd9]

Wombat is hitting the right notes.  The occupy Wall Street protest isn't trying to create a utopia where layabouts get a free ride.  They just want to fix the system so they can get a fair slice of the pie and not have the greedy hogs at the very top eat the whole goddamn pie.

[Nabubrush]

Also maybe at least try to investigate some folks who fucked things up for everybody else, instead of rewarding them, and if we're really lucky, take another look at that Citizens United bullshit (although I'm fairly sure that bird has flown, more's the pity).

[pmcd9]

But I do agree with Acap that sMets has a self defeating attitude that is holding him back.

Also... what about me?  I've had every advantage in the world and I'm pushing 50 and struggling to keep my head above water financially.

[littlefallsmets]

I don't think my attitude is self-defeating, I think it is realistically humane. The Reagan Junta deregulated the shit out of this country and wealth has been able to concentrate in ways that turned into the Great Depression last time around.

It's one thing for people like me, with a dream and a reasonable amount of talent looking for a dream job in the arts but without the confidence of a cut-throat, to fail. I get it. I'm not talking about me. People like me are probably always gonna fail unless they get either a lucky break or develop a sociopathic desire for success that sacrifices all other segments of life to get there. I'm one of the unsafe at any speed, I'm not delusional about that.

I'm talking about wading through a world where people with masters are taking food service and nanny gigs, if they can even find those. People who just wanted to be teachers, not rockstars or directors like my unrealistic ass, people who just wanted to be fuck*ng TEACHERS are barely holding onto retail gigs.

FDR was a rich motherfucker and he wasn't a socialist either, he knew that you had to prop up a middle class if you wanted a stable society where the rich aren't drug out into the streets in revolution every generation or two. He was being practical. The market doesn't work and communism doesn't work, either. High minded stupid ideals about either side of that argument are about as practically useful as a fart in a tornado.

What WORKS? What creates a stable society with enough mobility to not eventually lead to revolt in the streets?

Whatever that is... this isn't it. What we have now, careening so far into the favour of the Invisible Hand, isn't working.

[Nabubrush]

Here's to hoping Occupy Wall Street works out better than Occupy Iraq has.

Paul, you're the exception that proves the rule, or something. At least you have popcorn.

[smick]

High-five. You can be angry at the way things work or you can exploit it.

Not everyone has CEOs teaching them how make a nice tie knot.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Not everyone has CEOs teaching them how make a nice tie knot.

Yeah it takes that kind of mentality I guess. According to LFM, it takes a sociopathic drive to succeed. I forgot I shared that instance of my life with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAQ4yNgXelk

[wombat]

I am really disappointed that that wasn't a video of a CEO showing how to knot a tie.