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[ianmalcolm2]

Yeah, I think calling Molly one-note is pretty apt, especially given that she's portrayed more than once as little other than a fleshy thing that ensures Beef can choke down toast in the morning.

And speaking of pedestals, the fact that she's from LITERAL HEAVEN is kind of a giveaway

[dejavroom]

A thought experiment is imaginary. Colmore's suggestion is this: if roles were reversed, would you still have the same opinion?

A thought experiment must come from a thought. Not from a "thought", if you catch my drift. "Imaginary" doesn't mean "free from all obligations to a shared, consensual, verifiable reality". A thought experiment is a tool. It is only useful insofar as the conclusions drawn from it are actually useful to illuminate a certain question. If following a thought experiment from its premises to its conclusions doesn't yield anything usable, then the thought experiment is said to be "shitty". I'm gonna show it to you:

a) Due to 200.000 years of historical development, women have taken the active role in society, and thus dominate artistic portrayals in all the arts, including literature. Question: Would I think it "strange" if women dominated the cultural discourse in that scenario? Answer: No, because my knowledge of all the history that led to that current state of affairs explains to me why this is the case. I could still think it was unjust, but certainly *explainable* and comprehensible as the natural, logical result of the development of certain variables throughout a very long timespan. I might not *like* it, but I would not think it was *absurd*.

b) Due to a dunderhead event in which a super feminist cabal takes over the world, 85% of next year's cultural production gets to be centered around women. Question: Would I think it "strange" if women dominated the cultural discourse in that scenario and I knew about that? Answer: No, because a super feminist cabal took over the world -- that is, wrenched the state of affairs from its regular course, and I know about that.

c) Due to a dunderhead event in which a super feminist cabal takes over the world, 85% of next year's cultural production gets to be centered around women. Question: Would I think it "strange" if women dominated the cultural discourse in that scenario and I did not know about said feminist takeover? Answer: Yes, because, unbeknownst to me, a super feminist cabal took over the world -- that is, wrenched the state of affairs from its regular course and took it to a direction so unlike what came before that it couldn't help but draw attention to itself.

Do you see already why poorly thought out counterfactuals might not be your best friends in a debate? The only way in which this "thought" experiment could have helped you is if, in our world, a dunderhead masculinist cabal had taken over society overnight -- that would justify feelings of resentment, injustice etc. -- But that never happened!. As far as we know, biological differences gave men a headstart in physical matters, which opened the way for everything else. Your analogy/scenario/thought experiment fails insofar as you're trying to use it to advance a point in a debate. If you're using it like one of those things you say when you're stoned that makes your pals go "Whoa", it's fine, I guess. This is not even me talking, this is 2.000 years give or take of Aristotelian discourse: Poor premises yield poor conclusions. Poor conclusions muddle the debate. I can't make it clearer than this.

As for your other points, I'll wait to see how this post finds you. Your points are largely retreadings of a faulty argument, and it's a sad reality of debates that refutations are longer and harder to build than a faulty enunciation. I don't have that much free time, but I can be tempted.

[pmcd9]

Man, I sure hope Onstaid doesn't bring in a bunch of talky bitches and ruin the strip.

[Victoria Waterfield]

The Poorly Thought Out Counterfactuals are my favourite post-rock band.

[colmore]

Thank you for that journey into reason.

[wombat]

wombat, I am interested in your opinion. But you are expressing it too reasonably for me to know how to respond to it.

First I just have to say this is possibly the best example ever of the Inev character we all know and love.

It is definitely making me question whether part of the problem is my own reading of the characters, since you are both a woman and a person whose opinions about writing I trust.

And second, actually I think my reading of the characters is exactly the same as yours in the long paragraph of that message. It's just that it doesn't bother me. The same things would no doubt bother me in some other strip or book or movie. But Achewood is genius as what it does, so I don't require it to do everything.

But you know, maybe since I'm a female, I'm allowed to give him a pass on how he writes females and the rest of you should be uncomfortable about it. Seems fair to me.

Ash, on the other hand, is totally wrong, and his hatred of Molly is clearly the sign of a deeper illness.

[wombat]

Deja, seriously, I am worried about your blood pressure.Take a deep breath, it's just a message board about cartoon cats.

[greenkoolayd]

so is molly the equivalent of a "manic-pixie-dreamgirl" in the achewood universe?  a "balanced-realistic-everygirl"?

[dejavroom]

"You can't fight here, this is the war room!"

[Arachno-capitalist]

Ash, on the other hand, is totally wrong, and his hatred of Molly is clearly the sign of a deeper illness.

Why won't that witch just die for good.

[ianmalcolm2]

I go out for a couple hours to shovel snow and get some bagels, and somehow this has turned into a discussion about hypothetical "super-feminist cabals" and the nature of reason?!

[dejavroom]

Welcome to TOUAMB, ianmalcolm2. You were always the caretaker.

[wombat]

I go out for a couple hours to shovel snow and get some bagels, and somehow this has turned into a discussion about hypothetical "super-feminist cabals" and the nature of reason?!

Sometimes there are no posts for like days at a time. Other times you can't turn your back on us for a minute.

[jaydub]

How is it that we (according to the board stats) had 99278 new members this year (including over 20,000 in July alone), and yet
a) our current member count is 930
and
b) Wombat hasn't had all the posts she could want from all the newbies.

Naturally I suspect bots are the answer to both, in which case I'm wondering why we havent been buried under gigabytes of penis enlargement pill ads.  Is hitting delete and <drop user> what you and ACAP have been doing with your shared 260 days on TOUAMB?

[wombat]

New accounts have to be manually approved, which is AugustWest's job, and I'm guessing he deleted like 99276 of those new ones all year. I have no idea how he goes through them all, I assume it's basically a full-time job and that's why he doesn't have time to post much.