The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Science & Nature => Topic started by: robot_roll_call on December 19, 2005, 11:59:33 pm
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This topic was split from this one (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,2364.0.html).
Yes, sorry I meant to comment on this movie. Didn't hate it, but I can't recommend it. It goes on way too long, they overplay the relationship between the ape and the girl and they change the story in one very significant way that ruins one of the more powerful scenes from the original.
~Paul
Which scene was that?
I actually thought that changing the relationship dynamic was an interesting path for the movie to take to differentiate itself from the original. Plus it allowed for the frozen pond scene, which I was expecting to be cheesy but turned out to be my favorite scene in the film. It makes the inevitable ending hit a lot harder. But yeah, it got pretty sappy at points.
Related anecdote: the cow sitting asked to me asked outloud during the finale "Is that the Sears Tower?" Is that the SEARS TOWER? What the HELL people. I thought that the fact that Kong climbed the Empire State Building was gentically encoded into all persons born after 1933.
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You lose a dr. pepper and your refill privileges for calling someone a cow. And don't come running your hand into my popcorn bucket unless you want it audibly smacked.
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You lose a dr. pepper and your refill privileges for calling someone a cow. And don't come running your hand into my popcorn bucket unless you want it audibly smacked.
...Because Jorge borrowed Mickey Rourke's popcorn container from Diner.
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The worst part is that your avatar actually made me feel ashamed like I was getting a real Punishment.
I'm sorry. I will not call ignorant fat women cows anymore. I will write it on the board 100 times.
But come on. The Sears Tower?
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The worst part is that your avatar actually made me feel ashamed like I was getting a real Punishment.
I'm sorry. I will not call ignorant fat women cows anymore. I will write it on the board 100 times.
But come on. The Sears Tower?
I think it's just a question of relative class. Even if, by some objective standard, a person deserves to be called a cow, one never seems classier (or to be in the moral right) if one actually calls such a person a cow. Better to say "the majestically ignorant lady next to me" or some such.
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I think it's just a question of relative class. Even if, by some objective standard, a person deserves to be called a cow, one never seems classier (or to be in the moral right) if one actually calls such a person a cow. Better to say "the majestically ignorant lady next to me" or some such.
Huh. I just figured JorgeFabregas was upset because he was Hindu.
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V-Adore wins a delicious beverage and an upgrade on her refill privileges. She's now down on the list for a +1 and can bring a date or friend to the fountain.
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I think it's just a question of relative class. Even if, by some objective standard, a person deserves to be called a cow, one never seems classier (or to be in the moral right) if one actually calls such a person a cow. Better to say "the majestically ignorant lady next to me" or some such.
If she's Big AND Horny can I call her a cow?
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If she's Big AND Horny can I call her a cow?
Only if she gives you and three other people milk.
People or baby cows.
There needs to be an agreed-upon term for ladies who are not able to prevent themselves from vocalizing random thoughts at inappropriate times/volumes. I'm not clever enough to come up with it, though.
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I knew a large guy who was similar when watching movies. He kept a running commentary of munday, stating-the-obvious commentary during all movies "Oh, I hate you. You are such an asshole." to the bad guy, etc. etc. I don't think size is really the common factor here, though.
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Only if she gives you and three other people milk.
People or baby cows.
There needs to be an agreed-upon term for ladies who are not able to prevent themselves from vocalizing random thoughts at inappropriate times/volumes. I'm not clever enough to come up with it, though.
Well, you could just call them rude. I mean, this is a word used for other people who speak in theaters; I don't see why ladies of gravity somehow earn more livestock-based insults for the same behavior.
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JorgeFabregas--
size is exactly the factor.
The slender are at peace with a world where they can always fit into small spaces.
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The slender are at peace with a world where they can always fit into small spaces.
I call bull on this. I've recently become slender, and now people keep stuffing me into carry-on bins and mini-fridges!
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JorgeFabregas--
size is exactly the factor.
The slender are at peace with a world where they can always fit into small spaces.
Yeah, and the gravity-having are at peace with a world where they can push the slender into those small spaces. Y'all can find your niche in the world; I'll take the center, thanks.
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Yeah, and the gravity-having are at peace with a world where they can push the slender into those small spaces. Y'all can find your niche in the world; I'll take the center, thanks.
As long as you don't spill into my personal space, like on an airplane or a bus or subway or movie theater and particularly if you don't have the attititude that you somehow have the absolute right to take up space that I paid for, I don't care. But when beefy flesh with that savory whiff of fermenting fold-sweat is pushed up against me, against my will and in my space, I get offended pretty quick.
Being a person of gravity is one thing but there are limits to what people should have to put up with.
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As long as you don't spill into my personal space, like on an airplane or a bus or subway or movie theater and particularly if you don't have the attititude that you somehow have the absolute right to take up space that I paid for, I don't care. But when beefy flesh with that savory whiff of fermenting fold-sweat is pushed up against me, against my will and in my space, I get offended pretty quick.
Being a person of gravity is one thing but there are limits to what people should have to put up with.
So here's the thing about why a fat dude takes up some of the seat next to him on the bus: it is because he is very large. He is not able to, by an effort of will for your benefit, miraculously and abruptly become much smaller than he is. This is the amount of space he occupies. He is a large man who has someplace he needs to go.
I ride buses and trolleys, and, you know, I compress myself as best I can. I try to find a seat with an empty next to it, such that anyone who ends up next to me will have done so in the knowledge that they will be sitting next to a fat dude who is larger than he is allowed to be. If I cannot find an empty seat, and it is reasonably possible to do so (I have an old knee injury that acts up sometimes), I stand. Here is another thing about fat dudes: they have a lot of mass, and therefore a lot of momentum. This means that when the bus suddenly starts, stops, or turns, they experience a much greater centrifugal force than skinny dudes do. When a fat dude who is standing on a bus lurches to one side or the other, it is not because of his desire to get All Up Ins, or at least it is not necessarily so. It is because a much greater amount of force is being exerted on him laterally than on you. I am sure that some fat dudes are assholes but a lot of us are just guys who are trying to ride the bus.
If you are still annoyed over this, then just remind yourself that vengeance will be had the next time that dude has to get on a plane and the armrests on his seat are closer together than the width of his pelvic bone. Or the next time he is on a long Greyhound-type bus ride and the door of the bathroom is smaller than he is. Or the next time anything at all falls off a shelf in the same room that he is in, because fat dudes are always clumsy and he is therefore the one who swung his fat belly like a medieval flail to knock things off shelves.
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It is not easy in this society being either a man of gravity or a man who is many storied (tall).
Most public places seem to be designed for very very small people. Public toilets are SO LOW to the ground, and this often includes urinals. I often have to squat when I use a public mens so I don't piss on TOP of the tiny urinal, or else take the trouser snake all the way out, rather than just let him poke out of the fly, to extend down to the part that is open and ready to accept pee.
In diners they often have booths and tables that are bolted to things and thus cannot be moved, and waitresses, who are not blind as far as I can tell, think that is the appropriate place to seat me. In some places they also have tables, but the tables also have little narrow armrests which if I'm lucky will ONLY cut into the sides of my legs and kidneys while I try to hold my breath and eat. But usually the chairs simply do not work for me at all, in which case I get to stand there while everyone else is seated and the waitress tries to find a chair without arms.
Movie theatres suck for so many reasons, but little seats are part of it. Also, it is sometimes inconvenient to not be able to sit in stadium seats and to have to stand the length of a baseball game, especially with bad knees or a bad back, because men of gravity put a lot of pressure on these weak joints.
Also, men of gravity cannot eat anything in public without people judging, like "Oh look, the fat guy is eating again" even if it is a salad and the man in question has not eaten anything all day and it is dinner time. This is fun at parties, where men of gravity will go home hungry even though there was plenty of food for everyone else because he doesn't want to have to eat in front of the skinnier folk who lack compassion in their souls.
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Most public places seem to be designed for very very small people.
As a very small person, I beg to differ. But they are clearly designed for medium people who are not like either of us.
And let's everyone make a New Year's resolution not to judge what other people eat, regardless of their size or their inexplicable dislike of See's candies.
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It takes a high level of personal gravity to trigger my ire and in the vast majority of cases, the high level of gravity is due to lifestyle and is both preventable and reversible.
Very few people have a pelvis as wide as the armrests on a plane, the problem is the extra tissue.And I have no patience at all for the 'fat acceptance crowd' or the 'I'm being discriminated against' crowd.
I'm above average size (not huge) and slightly above my ideal weight. I have never had a problem sitting anywhere. Even in Hawaii where I'm actually WAY above average size. I think if people maintain a healthy BMI there generally isn't an issue - and very little of the obesity in the US is beyond the control of the patient. In the vast majority of cases, lifestyle changes can make a huge difference. The costs of obesity in the US are really becoming extremely significant, both on the medical and social side. Some major insurers are even considering health plans involving screening and monitoring of lifestyle and health factors to maintain low premium costs - so you pay for your risks.
I think that's a tremendous idea and could be the best thing to motivate prople toward healthier and more active lifestyles.
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AD, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Do you shout at people in a mental institution to "just stop being crazy" or expect people with Parkinson's to stop shaking, because whether they shake or not is something that is within the control of the patient?
The thing about something like alcoholism is that people *can* just stop drinking. I mean, physically. But to cut out food usually results in sickness and death.
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It takes a high level of personal gravity to trigger my ire and in the vast majority of cases, the high level of gravity is due to lifestyle and is both preventable and reversible.
I am basically reading this as "if you are fat, I have the right to be mad at you just for being near me in public spaces, and if I am mad at you, that means it's your fault. You should not in fact enter public spaces until you've slimmed down enough for my taste."
Very few people have a pelvis as wide as the armrests on a plane, the problem is the extra tissue.
Uh... I do. I am not carrying around that much extra pelvis tissue, and I'm just about at the limits of a plane seat. Also, for the record, many non-gravity-having people report discomfort in airline economy seating, which would indicate a different correlation to me than the one you seem to be assuming.
And I have no patience at all for the 'fat acceptance crowd' or the 'I'm being discriminated against' crowd.
So, if we're insulted based purely on our size or the fact that we're out in public (and not presumably locked in a basement with a treadmill and some lettuce), we should just take it?
Look, I'm not going to disagree with you: a lot of people in this country need to work on having healthier lifestyles. But I really don't think that refusing to treat fat people with dignity and shunning them for interacting in normative public ways sends the message "you should be engaging in a healthy lifestyle." If we treat obesity as a health problem, why exactly should sufferers of this particular health problem be abused when people with other publically-obvious health problems aren't? (People in wheelchairs often cause obstruction issues in public places as well, and yet it's reprehensible to suggest that they not be in the same public spaces as the rest of us.) Arguing that obesity is a health problem that needs greater public awareness and lifestyle changes, matched with the apparent opinion that fat people have actually done something morally wrong (because that's what shunning of this sort connotes in society, you know) is blatant hypocrisy.
Executive summary: fuck you.
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Now that my name is up there in lights, and due to the fact that I started all this, I would just like to say that I apologize my offhand insensitive remark. It's easy to forget that weight discrimination hurts people's feelings. I had no idea it was such a hot button issue. I am cool with persons of gravity, and henceforth rude women will no longer be compared to livestock, but will merely be known as "rude women".
This board really is all about education.
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I have a friend who weighed over 500 pounds and now he's lost 350 lbs. He did it because he knew he had to - that the weight was very unhealthy and he was going to die. He's the guy next to me on the plane.
He's a good friend and I'm really proud of him for what he's done for himself.
He represents to me the fact that for the vast majoirty of seriously overweight people, there is an option to lose the weight.
Jough, I eat every day and drink at least once a week. I am neither obese nor an alcoholic, and the suggestion that overweight people will die if they lose weight is senseless. No I don't go around yelling at blind people to see, or crazy people to not be crazy. I have, however, referred homeless people to shelters, battered women to programs, alcoholics to AA and etc. etc. The point is, a motivated person wanting to change their life/circumstances can and will - but they need tools and support. Eating and Exercise is absolutely within the control of most people with excess weight but like I say, tools and support are important. Just as they are in many disciplines of medical case managment and treatment.
"fat acceptance' and 'fat discrimination' are counter to getting people to understand that they have a condition that can and likely will seriously impact all aspects of their health. That's aside from the social stigmas that happen as well. If we can get people to quit alcohol after years of abuse, I think we can get people to adjust behaviors that lead to excess weight.
V - sorry you had to Fuck You me. It wasn't really something I was looking for, and also I think you read a lot into what I said (I can't connect your quote of me and your statement, for instance) and if you took it personally, sorry. It certainly wasn't meant personally. As an aside, you and I both have the right to be angry or feel whatever we want in a public space. If I harass you about something or attack you personally, then a law has been broken. But people will feel any way that they feel.
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#####_roll_call--
I think that this is the correct solution. The idea that saying that she is a "rude woman" could also be a complement (ie: these titties are the rudest!) makes it even more wonderful.
As a very thin man, I get the reverse response of large people. Everyone in the world constantly informs me that I don't eat enough, and/or that I'm a lucky bastard.
The thing is, I am trying to gain weight. I am trying very hard. The state of being scrawny is no longer appealing to me.
I am tired of people telling me that I have an eating disorder, or that I might fall into a crack in the floor. I realize that the fact that I don't have to try to be slender is upsetting to some people, but I don't see how that makes it their job to tell me when to eat.
I mean, I consider myself to be, in some ways, in the same place as People of Gravity. Part of my weight problem is genetic (ie: high metabolism, being a teenager, etc.) and part of it is probably psychological. I mean, on some level, I like being thin. I am overly anxious, and when I get anxious, I don't eat enough. I am extremely picky about food. I apparently don't have a very good internal clock, and so I don't have a set schedule for eating-- I don't eat until I'm hungry, and sometimes this means not eating as much as I should. So, I can either just say "oh, yeah, its my metabolism," or I can deal with the parts of it that I can control.
I can see what Alohadawg is, I think, trying to say. It isn't about being down on people who are Of Gravity, it's about helping them learn to be more healthy. I think that we all have to learn not to judge larger people, but, many of them need to learn to deal with their problems. I realize that this is genetic, cultural, etc. But so are many other problems which people can eventually overcome. he isnt' yelling at the people in the State Mental Institution to stop being crazy, he is... I dont' want to say "being a psychiatrist", but... something that involves helping them in a reasonable way. Let's say... alohadawg is like a candystriper.
The part that I can see as being insulting is the judging of large people when they eat. It's like when certain people say that everyone needs to "learn english". How do you know the mexican immigrant you see on the street sn't learning english? I mean, unless you see him again a year or so later, you'll never know. So, people just assume if they see someone speaking Spanish that they dont know english, and arent trying to learn it.
The same way, if I see a large person eating a cookie, I assume they're just a fat idiot. But how do I know this isn't their first cookie in a week? I don't. So I guess I'm a dick.
Yeah, ok.
Also: I think we can all get along, as long as we can all marvel at the following: I clicked reply, and a little red message came up saying "as you were reading this thread, another response was posted. you may want to review your response."
This made me glad deep inside.
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I want to say that, sincerely, I wish you all the best of health and happiness and prosperity for '06 as well.
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Now that my name is up there in lights, and due to the fact that I started all this, I would just like to say that I apologize my offhand insensitive remark. It's easy to forget that weight discrimination hurts people's feelings. I had no idea it was such a hot button issue. I am cool with persons of gravity, and henceforth rude women will no longer be compared to livestock, but will merely be known as "rude women".
Don't worry about it, man. I wasn't really concerned with weight discrimination; really, I'm just a fan of accuracy in insult, if that makes any sense. Your scorn for the woman was based on her rudeness (talking in a movie theater) and its compounded ignorance (asking a mind-bogglingly stupid question in a movie theater), and given that you probably would have been just as annoyed by a supermodel doing it, why put it in terms of body size when you can put it in terms of "this utter imbecile" and suchlike? There are so many delightful insults based on stupidity that it seems a shame to use one for something entirely different.
Now, to attempt not to double-post...
I can see what Alohadawg is, I think, trying to say. It isn't about being down on people who are Of Gravity, it's about helping them learn to be more healthy. I think that we all have to learn not to judge larger people, but, many of them need to learn to deal with their problems. I realize that this is genetic, cultural, etc. But so are many other problems which people can eventually overcome. he isnt' yelling at the people in the State Mental Institution to stop being crazy, he is... I dont' want to say "being a psychiatrist", but... something that involves helping them in a reasonable way. Let's say... alohadawg is like a candystriper.
Well, except that he's not. If he was talking about giving support to fat people who actually asked for his support losing weight (friends on a diet, for example, or people he saw in some capacity as a health professional) I would agree with you, but it's incredibly rude to offer unsolicited health advice to strangers (of any weight, I should note). This is mostly because you don't know their circumstances, as you've noted; a fat person could well be having his first cookie in a week, a thin person could not be eating lunch due to having a heavy breakfast or having other things to do on his lunch break, &c. Unsolicited advice to strangers in public places, when you don't know what they've been eating previously or their dietary history, is just crass.
Not to mention that most of the things people do, and a lot of the things AD mentioned, are in no way constructive to health. Glaring at fat people on public transportation doesn't encourage them to get healthy, it makes them feel persecuted (which is unfair to people who can't help their weight and unhelpful to those people who are actually just gluttons, since nothing reinforces bad behavior like a persecution complex). While some behaviors may be appropriate to help fat people engage in a healthier lifestyle, unsolicited behaviors towards strangers almost never are, and most of them are just discrimination couched in "health advice" to make it seem less judgmental and more justified.
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Well, except that he's not. If he was talking about giving support to fat people who actually asked for his support losing weight (friends on a diet, for example, or people he saw in some capacity as a health professional) I would agree with you, but it's incredibly rude to offer unsolicited health advice to strangers (of any weight, I should note). This is mostly because you don't know their circumstances, as you've noted; a fat person could well be having his first cookie in a week, a thin person could not be eating lunch due to having a heavy breakfast or having other things to do on his lunch break, &c. Unsolicited advice to strangers in public places, when you don't know what they've been eating previously or their dietary history, is just crass.
Not to mention that most of the things people do, and a lot of the things AD mentioned, are in no way constructive to health. Glaring at fat people on public transportation doesn't encourage them to get healthy, it makes them feel persecuted (which is unfair to people who can't help their weight and unhelpful to those people who are actually just gluttons, since nothing reinforces bad behavior like a persecution complex). While some behaviors may be appropriate to help fat people engage in a healthier lifestyle, unsolicited behaviors towards strangers almost never are, and most of them are just discrimination couched in "health advice" to make it seem less judgmental and more justified.
We differ in the application of the term rude: if a person is committed for mental illness against their will or stopped from committing suicide, that is equally rude and intrusive (and possibly more so) but absolutely socially necessary. From my point of view, if a person's health care cost or a portion of them are borne by others (i.e., the state is covering costs or to a lesser extent, a person belongs to a group purchasing a health plan) than others, say the public or members of the group have a vested interest in a member not costing a lot of money for care. So they should be able to compel members to avoid habits or lifestyles likely to cause them to spend money, like, say, smoking or excessive weight. Self-insurance on an individual basis or group plans created for risk groups or that index premiums to risk are the only ways to avoid others from having that interest in a third party's health (barring infectious disease).
As for the question of judgment: humans are hard-wired for comparison, discernment and judgment. And rightly so, for we form opinions. I think that it's equally fair to consider my opinions here as subject to judgment as well - it can hardly be helped. People react a certain way and others react to the reaction. I believe that we are all subject to a good deal of highly subjective evaluation constantly and despite our correct hope that one day humanity will rise above that to see what's inside (and despite a good many people who claim they do) the fact is that it's probably in the best social interest to present oneself in the way that the most people will find positive (reference Side_Show's post about the lady with the beard). Sad but true; judgment is with ALL of us and isn't going away.
Executive Summary: I think you're smart and all but I disagree.
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We differ in the application of the term rude: if a person is committed for mental illness against their will or stopped from committing suicide, that is equally rude and intrusive (and possibly more so) but absolutely socially necessary. From my point of view, if a person's health care cost or a portion of them are borne by others (i.e., the state is covering costs or to a lesser extent, a person belongs to a group purchasing a health plan) than others, say the public or members of the group have a vested interest in a member not costing a lot of money for care. So they should be able to compel members to avoid habits or lifestyles likely to cause them to spend money, like, say, smoking or excessive weight. Self-insurance on an individual basis or group plans created for risk groups or that index premiums to risk are the only ways to avoid others from having that interest in a third party's health (barring infectious disease).
I seriously have no idea even where to start.
Suicide argument: reductio ad absurdam, bar none. A fat person eating something unhealthy in public is in no way putting oneself in obvious, immediate danger of death in a way that someone attempting public suicide is. Neither is, say, a thin person not eating enough, a smoker lighting up a single cigarette, and so on.
Public responsibility argument: how far are you willing to extend this? Does it also apply to, say, elderly people or poor people doing something you believe to be unsafe (since they may be on Medicare or Medicaid)? Does this apply to anyone whose you have some reasonable expectation might not have individual private health insurance?
Also, are you aware how crass this sounds? "Excuse me, ma'am, I would like to remind you not to eat that because I believe it might at some point be a factor in a heart attack which, if you are uninsured, might cost me a tax dollar."
I don't disagree with a lot of your ideas -- that is, that people have a responsibility to intervene when someone is obviously causing harm to him/herself in a public place. But your definition of "obviously causing harm" appears to include, well, just existing above a certain weight, and to paraphrase e. e. cummings, that is some shit I will not eat. You've basically told me here, in a backhanded way, that by existing I am a risk to myself and a burden on society. To which I can only repeat: well, fuck you. It's none of your business unless I'm engaging in Mr. Creosote-level obscene gluttony. Who died and told you that you had a right to judge my eating habits as "unsafe to society?"
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OK, this is clearly a touchy issue.
My sisters and I have dealt with weight issues growing up, but the youngest (who is very thin now) and I have mostly been able to keep it under control (though I have the beer gut from hell. I kid you not. I mean, that thing's huge). But the one between us in age is seriously obese. (By all those weight indexes I am too, I think, but I suppose I hide it much more easily. Also, I am trying to take the weight off again. It's just that I gain it so easily.) But anyway, it's always been a very sensitive issue with the sister that is very overweight. On one hand, it's strange. Because if a family member smokes, or drinks excessively, or does drugs, or whatever, for the most part, no one has trouble with dispensing health advice. But we used to have to tiptoe around the weight issue with her. (I was this way once, too.) So it seems that there should be no difference between one person who drinks too much (but doesn't drive while drunk) and smokes (in his own home with air filters) and a person who is obese.
But, there is. Being overweight is more closely related to issues that bear heavily on one's notion of self-worth, and if a person who is overweight feels that people (especially loved ones) are judging him because he is simply unattractive or inconvenient or whatever--well, it's extremely hurtful. I think the whole fat discrimination thing has been blown way out of proportion recently (especially with that Tyra Banks stunt--I can't wait for the book: Fat Like Me), and I certainly agree with Dawg in that it is a public health issue that must be addressed. But it's also one that must be treated in a different manner, I think, than, say, drug addiction. When telling a fat person that he should lose weight so he can live longer and enjoy a much higher quality of life, it doesn't help at all to remind him that large segments of society find him unattractive or inconvenient. Or maybe it's not so different. I imagine that effective drug treatment doesn't include lectures on how unreliable or worthless addicts are. (To be clear, I don't equate obesity with drug addiction.)
But even though it is a public health issue, it's not clear exactly what that means. If that argument is taken too far, then lots of activities could be ruled out. There is clearly a line, even if it's hard to find out where, between the government reasonably limiting freedoms for the public good (seatbelt laws, age-related liquor and tobacco laws, etc.) and just plain unfair intrusion. Mandatory diets for fat people, I think, clearly crosses the line.
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I think we can all settle down as the problem will resolve itself when I die of my inevitable early stroke or heart attack. Panic attacks generally keep me inside the house six days out of seven or more so I am not bothering any skinny people usually and I am uninsured so I am not a financial strain on thin society as a whole. Also because being fat and scared to leave the house are not really disabilities I am not leeching off any hard-working thin people's tax dollars, and obviously I am no particular threat to the virginities of their sisters and daughters. So this is really a self-addressing issue.
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But, there is. Being overweight is more closely related to issues that bear heavily on one's notion of self-worth, and if a person who is overweight feels that people (especially loved ones) are judging him because he is simply unattractive or inconvenient or whatever--well, it's extremely hurtful. I think the whole fat discrimination thing has been blown way out of proportion recently (especially with that Tyra Banks stunt--I can't wait for the book: Fat Like Me), and I certainly agree with Dawg in that it is a public health issue that must be addressed. But it's also one that must be treated in a different manner, I think, than, say, drug addiction. When telling a fat person that he should lose weight so he can live longer and enjoy a much higher quality of life, it doesn't help at all to remind him that large segments of society find him unattractive or inconvenient. Or maybe it's not so different. I imagine that effective drug treatment doesn't include lectures on how unreliable or worthless addicts are. (To be clear, I don't equate obesity with drug addiction.)
I think you're really hitting the nail on the head re: the comparison to drug addiction. Both of them have such strong moral undertones in the society (and society seems to assume that both drug addiction and obesity are consequences of low willpower or other personal weakness), so "this is a lifestyle that creates health problems, and you need to address that for your own health" inevitably gets conflated with "this proves that you're a less worthwhile person." (The difference, I think, is that drug addiction often is significantly more radical, usually has more direct deleterious effects on personality and behavior, and is a greater risk to others. They're not really comparable aside from the moral-conflation issues.) This is why a lot of us can get very defensive about these things: because "I believe this is a problem" tends to be connected with "... because you're gluttonous/slovenly/weak-willed" and not "... because it's a long-term health risk to you." This is why, in my opinion, it's only a subject best breached to people you know and have a trusting relationship with.
Now, for the mea-culpa part of this: I have also been getting defensive in this thread. I will freely admit that implications that weight disqualifies one for the common consideration others receive in public social situation, or qualifies one to be patronized to and treated as a burden on society even without serious health problems, is a real hair trigger for me. While I stand by what I've said in this thread, I would like to apologize for my delivery and to anyone I may have offended. Honestly, I try to avoid threads that I know are going to do this to me, but... this time, I failed. And I apologize. Maybe I should put myself on double-secret probation and only talk about depressed dogs and a retarded otter for a while.
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I seriously have no idea even where to start.
I'll start by reiterating that I've yet to attack you personally. If you believe you fall into some category to which you'd rather not belong that's your business.
The point was not that overweight people are committing suicide. The point was that a social structure, especially one that expends social resources on health care, has a right to do health interventions, even uninvited ones. The more resources spent, the bigger the responsibility to be a steward of those resources.
This is one major reason why universal health care will never work in America. The pyramid is inverted and the working healthy will be subsidizing those who have lifestyle diseases - smokers, for the worst part and then diabetics who developed diabetes from chronic obesity, poor dietary choices, and sedentary lifestyle. Unfortunately both these groups also wind up with disabilities (emphysema, CPD, Strokes, blindness, amputatations) which generally leave them less able to work.
As for a policy of stopping people as they eat, well, that wasn't something I really mentioned as an option either. I still believe that risk assessment + education + opportunity to demonstrate change + tying health insurance coverage and premiums to (1) risk and (2) demonstrated behavior change to ameliorate risk is probably the strongest possible social policy and IF Universal Health Care were to appear in this form, I would support it. Personal responsibility is a huge problem in the US in all realms of behavior including many many health issues only one of which is weight and activity.
As for the rest, well, I'm still not gonna stoop to the old 'fuck you' but we ain't never gonna agree and we ain't never gonna stop hella yellin' about it so Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
<><><>and you posted while I wrote so <><><>
I don't support the marginalization of people based on their appearance. I totally acknowledge its existence, and I admit to having had thoughts of that type. The drug addiction comparison is interesting, all I would add is that you don't need to 'counsel' an addict on his value to society - in most cases, by the time they seek or are sent to treatment, they feel this way already. Possibly the same with people with serious weight problems - but the answer isn't to trick someone into believing their weight is fine and they aren't the ones with the problem. Society has a problem, but so does the person.
V, if you've been discriminated against or treated badly based on your appearance that sucks. I also apologize for going a long way to the right with some of these arguments - never meaning to make you feel like you needed to be defensive - but nothing I've said here is much more than one man's opinion about one topic which means different things to different people. I've never been fat or skinny and I've always had a nice low heart rate and blood pressure. Scoliosis not withstanding, I'm in good shape and that's a blessing I should simply be thankful for.
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I've purposely avoided becoming involved in this thread. It hits a little close to home and I like to keep things fun around here. But I suppose my ethanol content has reached the point where I am compelled to comment.
I'm fat and I have been for about 15 years. I'm married to a woman who has been fat all her life. I have a fat daughter. I have another daughter who works hard not to be fat.
On one hand, I think we are genetically predisposed to gain and retain weight. I have "the Morgan Thighs" as does my mother, brother and daughter.
The other part is social/psychological/environmental. We eat. We like to eat. We like to eat well and we like to eat a lot. Eating and cooking gives us a great deal of pleasure. Drinking too. Eating is an artform for us. When narrow-minded people ask me why, as a man, I like to cook, I say "Because I like to eat good."
Rambling here, I know.
I get a little dubious when people start talking about societal costs. One of the best concepts I learned about in Law School was "Externalities". As I understand it, externalities are cost that are incurred by your behavior that must be paid by society at large. In a perfect economy there'd be no such thing -- everyone would pay the costs of their own behavior. Too bad we aren't there.
AD is arguing that obese people have expensive externalities, and he is pretty much correct. However, virtually everyone engages in expensive externalities. Anybody who isn't completely and fully paying for the extended consequences of their actions is engaging in unfunded externalities.
For instance:
Riding w/o a helmet
Driving w/o insurance
Driving an SUV
Burning coal
Smoking
Overbreeding
Eating Hotdogs
If the price you pay to do something doesn't equal or exceed what it costs the world, you're creating externalities.
So yes, being fat is an externality. It's a burden on society (on some level) for me to be 35 pounds overweight.
But I dare you to prove to me that your externalities aren't roughly equivalent.
These things balance out.
Yes, fat people are a problem. But everybody causes problems to some extent. A corrolary: Everybody benefits us to some extent.
What are your externalities? Should you really be pointing the finger at fat people? Do you not share their weaknesses?
Please forgive me if this post is incoherent.
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Not incoherent at all, and the whole externalities thing was exactly at least one point I was trying to make in my post.
And you also share my problem. For whatever reason, I gain weight more easily than my friends, with many of whom I share similar eating and exercise habits. On the other hand, it just means that if I wish to keep the weight off, I have to work harder at it, and eat at least a bit less. It's just that I can't decide whether it's worth it on a daily basis, because I love food and drink so much, and often there isn't enough time to exercise it off.
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Thank you, August, for once again being significantly more eloquent than I've managed to be.
You pretty much cut to the heart of it with your discussion of externalities. Yes, fat people have a certain degree of externalities -- but so does everyone else, and to be honest I think externality/social cost of fat people is often used to cover up a reaction based on prejudice or aesthetic repulsion. If you're really judging based purely on social cost, are you also levelling similar intensities of reaction on people with similar externalities? If fat people deserve our social scorn, how about un-helmeted motorcyclists?
I think it's about time for me to step out of this thread; there's not much more I can contribute, and like I said earlier, I'm getting overdefensive. However, one last thing, to AD: there's only so far "I'm not talking about/insulting you personally" can go. It's simple ninth-grade logic here: I am a member of Group A, you are expressing the thought that Group A is a social burden and deserving of unsolicited "interventions" from strangers, therefore... QED. With all due respect, I'm not entirely willing to trust in the sincerity of "I would behave and feel this way towards all members of the group except you," especially since I've given you no compelling reason to make an exception in my case.
I think this is the part where I sing. Catch y'all in other threads.
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Well, I don't have health insurance and collect zippo from the government, have paid into social security and unemployment but have never collected, and I pay school taxes so your idiot kids can go to school, while I have no children (that I kn... you get the idea) so I think society owes me a little blowback.
Anyway, I've lost 80 pounds this year - 40 slowly by eating better, and the other 40 in the past six weeks by being ill (granted, a lot of that is probably muscle mass). It took years to put on, and I tend to gain a lot of weight if I exercise a lot. When I was playing tennis every day (for hours a day, during and just after high school) I was healthier than most of my peers, had the pulse rate of a marathon runner, perfect blood pressure, etc., and yet I was about 75lbs. overweight. I put on about 20 pounds during the spring tennis season my senior year of high school by exercising a lot and working out every day, eating a very strict diet, etc. (okay, granted, a lot of that weight gain was probably muscle mass).
Anyway, for years I have only eaten two meals a day, and I'm now eating about half as much as I used to, and while my recent rapid weight loss sounds good I have never felt so horrible. Exercise isn't much of an option, because I have trouble breathing (I only have the use of one lung, and it's the smaller of the two) and it's also cold as fuck outside.
As for not taking things people post "in general" personally, your posts on this subject sound to me such as if someone were to write "All people who live in Hawaii are assholes. Oh, but I didn't mean for you to be offended, AlohaDawg!"
Plus, dude, I have seen photos of you, and you are (or were) totally a man of gravity.
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This is one major reason why universal health care will never work in America.
Ok, I understand that America has a greater obesity problem than most countries, but do you really think the costs of that would skew the scale more than negative population growth does in European countries? Obviously it is your field and you have more expertise, but I have serious reservations about that claim.
AD is arguing that obese people have expensive externalities, and he is pretty much correct. However, virtually everyone engages in expensive externalities. Anybody who isn't completely and fully paying for the extended consequences of their actions is engaging in unfunded externalities.
For instance:
Riding w/o a helmet
Driving w/o insurance
Driving an SUV
Burning coal
Smoking
Overbreeding
Eating Hotdogs
If the price you pay to do something doesn't equal or exceed what it costs the world, you're creating externalities.
So yes, being fat is an externality. It's a burden on society (on some level) for me to be 35 pounds overweight.
But I dare you to prove to me that your externalities aren't roughly equivalent.
Well, personally I am for helmet laws, insurance laws, incentives that discourage SUV use, encourage alternative energies, etc. I don't find the idea that there are many externalities a convincing argument against the assertion that certain externalities are very costly. It would be more convincing if you could show that such externaltiies are spread roughly equally througout the population or that people who are more likely to be overweight are less likely to participate in or be other costly things. [Pat}Aside from living in Illinois where most of the power is from coal, I don't do any of those things. I walk to a lot of places, am a vegetarian, and am formerly fat. I do receive government grants and subsidized loans for my education, but I would like to think that that will have a benefit to society at large, too. I don't really have a point......[/Pat] I guess my point is that obsesity is a problem. I don't think that Americans, as a whole, are predisposed to being obese. I am not willing to say about any problem "Well, there are a lot of problems, so, eh..." and I do think this problem needs to be addressed somehow. I guess if you are saying that skinny people shouldn't feel superior simply because they are skinny, as they may have other externalities, then I agree with you. Then again, even if some calculus could show that one person did have fewer-than-average externalities, it would be pretty shitty of them to look down on other people.
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Yes, obesity is a problem. Yes, I am aware of this. I am not Todd T. Squirrel (http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=01122005). I didn't wake up one morning and say "Hey, you know what would be totally rad? Premature death from a vast array of weight-related health problems! Holy shit, that would rock my balls!"
It's just.. Jesus. It's a party being fat and crazy. On one side you get people with no fuck*ng idea what it means to actually have an Anxiety Disorder saying "Oh, come on, the phone call won't really hurt you" because, you know, the only reason I don't talk to other human beings is because I had been misinformed as to the potential carcinogenic nature of human voices. And then on the other side you also get people saying implicitly or explicitly "You should not be allowed to exist in public. You take up too much space and I find this offensive". There are skinny dudes on public transportation who will leap across the car to dry-hump the likeliest target, there are guys who sprawl their legs out across the seat next to them and over the seat in front of them while people are cramming in, and when I squish myself into the smallest possible space in which I will fit I still get Looks and Reprimands as if I am deliberately and maliciously engaging in excessive largeness.
This is not a contribution to a helpful and rational conversation. I'm pretty much just bitching here.
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I guess my point is that obsesity is a problem. I don't think that Americans, as a whole, are predisposed to being obese. I am not willing to say about any problem "Well, there are a lot of problems, so, eh..." and I do think this problem needs to be addressed somehow. I guess if you are saying that skinny people shouldn't feel superior simply because they are skinny, as they may have other externalities, then I agree with you.
I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that obesity is a good thing. It's a problem.
Then again, even if some calculus could show that one person did have fewer-than-average externalities, it would be pretty shitty of them to look down on other people.
Exactly. Even if you are perfect, you're a dick if you treat other people badly.
I mean "you" in the generic sense. I'm not suggesting that you personally are a dick.
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For the record, based on his posts here I don't think that AlohaDawg is a douchbag, but he's certainly been playing one in this thread.
There are some subjects that cause certain people to sound like idiots/jerkoffs. Mine is botany. This is AD's.
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Botany? You have strongly held, controversial opinions about botany?
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Oh, man, don't even get me started, because everyone will just get all pissed off and stuff.
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Thinking about the possibilities of Jough's Botany Issues fascinates and terrifies me. I almost think it is better to know nothing about them except that he has Botany Issues which must never be unleashed.
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Thinking about the possibilities of Jough's Botany Issues fascinates and terrifies me. I almost think it is better to know nothing about them except that he has Botany Issues which must never be unleashed.
I second this. I'm deeply enamoured with the idea that everyone has some hot-button issue about which they will be a total douche, and while most people manage to make theirs one generally understood to cause this effect, Jough does botany. You know there is some guy out there whose hot-button is something like the history of soup-can labels.
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Oh, man, don't even get me started, because everyone will just get all pissed off and stuff.
I fuck*ng HATE FAT PLANTS!
I mean, really, for Gods's Sake. I have an unpopular opinion and some of you are getting your sphincters severely puckered over it.
I LIKE YOU GUYS. I LOVE MY WIFE.
Guess what.
My wife is overweight.
Guess what else. I LOVE HER FOR A MILLION OTHER REASONS.
and I like you guys for a million other reasons and if I meet you in person, I am fairly sure the topic of your personal weight won't come up unless you bring it up. The idea that I'm walking around here verbally abusing overweight people and plotting to create programs to round them up into concentration juicebars/gyms is pretty silly, don't you think?
Also, I'm all over the place socially (more conservative than not, usually) so take that wherever you like. Douchebag land is a little far to take it, but hey, you know, to each his own. I have a lot of beliefs y'all don't like. I ain't boohooing about your opionons, internalizing them, fuck-youing you or calliing you douchebags. I seem to recall even having a few agreements here and there.
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OK please we're going to stop fighting now, right? It's Christmas.
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He started it!
Oh man, I am going to take away SO MANY DR PEPPER CANS that you'll be paying off karmic-board-debt until Onstad decides that he'd like to run an arboretum or something.
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the history of soup-can labels.
Oh no you dint!
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He started it!
Oh man, I am going to take away SO MANY DR PEPPER CANS that you'll be paying off karmic-board-debt until Onstad decides that he'd like to run an arboretum or something.
Holy crap. He basically has -MaxInt now. Jough doesn't screw around.
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Holy crap. He basically has -MaxInt now. Jough doesn't screw around.
When Jough ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
That said, you know what pisses me off? Xylem. I mean, where do the fuck*ng plants get off with pulling that shit? Honestly, Plantae, have some dignity.
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What does a negative can of Dr Pepper look like?
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What does a negative can of Dr Pepper look like?
(http://frank.plagiarist.com/pix/tinydrpepperneg.JPG)
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(http://frank.plagiarist.com/pix/tinydrpepperneg.JPG)
Ohh, I see. It's spearmint-flavored Dr Pepper.
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I fuck*ng HATE FAT PLANTS!
I mean, really, for Gods's Sake. I have an unpopular opinion and some of you are getting your sphincters severely puckered over it.
I LIKE YOU GUYS. I LOVE MY WIFE.
Guess what.
My wife is overweight.
Guess what else. I LOVE HER FOR A MILLION OTHER REASONS.
and I like you guys for a million other reasons and if I meet you in person, I am fairly sure the topic of your personal weight won't come up unless you bring it up. The idea that I'm walking around here verbally abusing overweight people and plotting to create programs to round them up into concentration juicebars/gyms is pretty silly, don't you think?
Also, I'm all over the place socially (more conservative than not, usually) so take that wherever you like. Douchebag land is a little far to take it, but hey, you know, to each his own. I have a lot of beliefs y'all don't like. I ain't boohooing about your opionons, internalizing them, fuck-youing you or calliing you douchebags. I seem to recall even having a few agreements here and there.
I thought this was a fairly nice thing to say (except for the part about the Fat Plants. Who knew Jough had a thing for Fat Plants?)
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When Jough ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
That said, you know what pisses me off? Xylem. I mean, where do the fuck*ng plants get off with pulling that shit? Honestly, Plantae, have some dignity.
Xylem nothing! I will not hear your blasphemy! We all know phloem is the real complex tissue culprit of the flora genre!
Philistine!
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Please give AD back his Dr Pepper before I cry. That is so mean.
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Oh man, I totally missed a mini board implosion thing-y.
AD, I love how you are always the guy with the opinion everyone else disagrees with, but that you don't sensor yourself at all. I don't agree with you on most issues, but I love that you bring it. You bring it.
As for calling anyone a cow, I enjoy calling people "cows" and it generally doesn't have anything to do with there size. I just like calling people cows. I like calling people lots of things, but only with the little voice in my head, not like, vocally. If I said half the shit I thought I'd be served up beatings on a daily basis.
As for myself, health-wise I have never been in a better place - and it has now officially been a year of being drug free - woo hoo - and all is really good in Mel-ville. The thyroid meds I need to take to stay alive have been reduced in dose for the first time in years, and a lot of the stomach problems I was having from the horrible food poisoning, are going away. I have, however, come to notice that the weight that I gained during my partying is not going away. You know, you smoke dope every day and somehow the empty Burger King bags and grease-spattered take-out bags just... appear. So what am I to do? I can not diet - since my mentally ill mother had me on diets since I was 7 or 8 I tend to have serious emotional issues if I deny myself food I want, like I am basically unable to function if I am on a restricted eating plan. I've come to a place of emotional peace that I don't want to put at risk by mucking around in the muddy waters of my food/body image issues. I also had a point about four years ago where dieting got a little out of controle for me, and I was getting sick from not eating enough and exercising too much, and that was when my body felt it's worst. I was hovering around what the BMI says I should be, and I'd never been sicker in my life. Also my SO doesn't want me to lose my new bigger boobies, so there's pressure on my to stay the way I am. Really though, I'm not comfortable with the extra baggage. The only option is to increase the physical activity quotient. I can't fuck around with food anymore, or I'll end up an emotional mess, or all sick and weak again.
So step one is officially giving up my car, which I did a little over a month ago. My amount of walking has been drastically increased, but as the deep freeze of Manitoba winter approaches, I question if I can keep up all this walking, and don't want to give in to riding the bus. Anyone else function in cold climates? What can I do to force myself outside in the cold?
Step two is to get to the gym more. Since I've got bad knees and hips from improper running habits from my younger years, I like to run on the elliptical machines. I would like to swim, but without my glasses I am so near sighted that I can only see about 2 1/2 feet in front of me. This makes swimming scary for me. Is anyone here a swimmer with sight issues? What do you do? Obviously I can't wear my contact lenses in the pool...
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Prescription goggles. They're fairly expensive, but if they server you for a few years and enable you to swim/exercise, they're probably worth it. In a similar vein, I had a friend who would just wear contacts behind goggles and get the same sort of effect - I gather the water changes the focus a little bit, but it was still better than a bluish cloud.
So, I guess those are options - although, my father is totally blind and he swims fine - I think you just need to figure out how to find the lane's edge with each stroke.
Also, cheers to everyone's body image comments - while I don't like some of the arguing going on (especially between mods), I do enjoy the variety of opinions represented here. Carry on.
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Please give AD back his Dr Pepper before I cry. That is so mean.
I love you. :-*
AD, I love how you are always the guy with the opinion everyone else disagrees with, but that you don't sensor yourself at all. I don't agree with you on most issues, but I love that you bring it. You bring it.
Thanks. I am acutely aware that I'm basically the unabomber around here roughly half the time. I do genuinely feel sorry for the millions of people around the world with unpopular opinions who live in places where they'll die for saying them.
And prescription goggles are the way to go if you don't want to or can't wear contacts and regular goggles. On the other hand, you really only need to see that far in a pool - if you are good with the flip turn. (I still brain myself backstroking every once in awhile, though). If you wear contacts, go to a sporting goods store and buy a quality pair of goggles. Speedo makes good ones and Aquasphere are good too (I use those), and I always wear my contacts with them and no problems.
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Thanks. I am acutely aware that I'm basically the unabomber around here roughly half the time. I do genuinely feel sorry for the millions of people around the world with unpopular opinions who live in places where they'll die for saying them.
Dude. I hope you know that despite the fact that we disagree on some minor issues, I think you're tops. Mainly because we pretty much agree on all the important things like music, Achewood and food.
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Yeah, I don't think you're a crap dude or anything, AlohaDawg, I just think that your inner dickhead comes out around certain issues, and it's just that in the past our inner douchebagae have been in conjunction, where in this case I disagree not so much with what you're saying, but some of the conclusions you're drawing which are pretty much BS.
Taking away 60,000 cans of Dr Pepper may seem harsh in some people's minds, but if I really disliked you I'd send such as a letterbomb or something.
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Now there's an idea! And I even have some people's addresses!
Is there a word that means, like, Really Ironic that describes sending a letter bomb to the unabomber?
Dude. I hope you know that despite the fact that we disagree on some minor issues, I think you're tops. Mainly because we pretty much agree on all the important things like music, Achewood and food.
I was in Tower Records today and I suddenly realized, as I picked out two U-2 CDs, that I don't actually know who many of the other artists even are. Or what they sound like, or what they sing.
The fact that I recognize their names I think I can mainly attribute to this board.
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The fact that I recognize their names I think I can mainly attribute to this board.
Education.
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Wearing my contacts behing my goggles! Why the hell didn't I think of that? I did think of getting prescription goggles but they are so far out of my price range that I could cry a single tear. Tiny sodas for both you gents. See I almost never wear my contacts, usually just my glasses. As for the suggestion of just going it blind, no. Nooooo. With my glasses I have almost 20/20 vision and the only time I take them off is when I'm sleeping. I've twice tried going swimming without them, and it is terrifying - the getting from locker room to pool part is the scariest. At my gym you have to go down three flights of wet stairs. All feeling the walls, and holding one arm out in front of me, clinging to the rails with the other, a half naked and barefoot. I remember the last time feeling like a prone little creature, ready to walk strait into the mouth of some beastie creature. Then I get to the pool area and a flesh coloured blob comes up to me and says, "I'm sorry but the pool is closed, didn't you read the sign?" and I mumble something and feel my way back to the lockers.
Any suggestions of a good quality goggle? My old ones let a lot of water in and I'm guessing the pool water will destroy contact lenses.
I'm sorry, how horribly off topic, could someone mod this to somewhere else?
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Only a writer like Side Show can make a post like that sound cute and sexy at the same time. Funny story: the YMCA's were very different in the 50's and early 60's. Boys and men only, different pool rules. I was talking to a lifeguard at the Y in Evanston Illinois a few years ago and she had the fun experience of getting in the pool during open swim time to let an elderly gentleman know that, nowadays, we wear trunks when we swim. Oh how the times change.
Speedo makes/licenses their name to good goggles and so does Aquasphere. I suggest buying them at a sporting goods store; you'll pay more but it's way less hit or miss than buying them at a department store. The seals are pretty important. So is the distance between the eyepieces, sometimes the seals are fine but the goggles are maladjusted.
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Thank you AD. Always good advice.
And now back on topic: People of Gravity are cows. No, I kid, but really, I do love a good insult, it gives me such pleasure when someone is uber-rude to me to just say to myself (silently, in my head) a really crude thing to them, or say, if it is someone outside hearing range and I'm with my SO, to share a little comment with him. I'm hoping I'm not an evil person for doing this. I mean thinking someone is an ugly waste of space when they are nasty to me wouldn't extend to people I deal with on a human level. It is like a little pressure release valve. So I keep it to myself, but I do have these thoughts. Some of my favorite insults are ones I've made up over time. My very favorite made-up insult is to call someone a "Retardo Montalbon" (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001544/). I occasionally use that one to describe myself, though, when I've done something very stupid. Another one my bestfriend and I enjoy is "Gunt" I don't think we made it up, and I'm not going to search for it, as I'm at work right now, but Gunt is the "g" taken from gut and the "unt" taken from cunt. Again, I don't use it for only fat people, I like to keep my insults universal, but I do save "gunt" for the ladies, and always in my head only, not out loud.
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HAHAHA!
The gunt is the ostensible creation of Beatrice and I.
In other news, this is one of those giant threads that pops up overnight like some sort of karmatically hurtful mushroom while I'm sitting downstairs watching "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly"; as a result, I read part of the first page and the last post. If anything massively important happened other than anger, please PM me with documentation. A-thankew.
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Oh wow, that's right! That's where I heard it! It was here, from you B.! A tiny can for you for actually working a word you created into my lexicon through the internet.
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Dude, you're taking credit for gunt (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gunt)?
Did you know that my uncle was the guy who designed the voicemail system where seven means delete?
I'm sorry, but I'm just going to have to remove a tiny can of Dr Pepper. You can't take credit for such things without repercussions on the internet.
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Some people just either don't get the cans or are such crap dudes that they'd take one away for no reason, or for some arbitrary superficial reason.
Admittedly, there are some people to whom I bestow a can on every chance I get, for any post that makes me smile. Otherwise, I think it wrong to taketh away a can unless someone is being a dick.
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The dude is taking credit for coining a word he did not coin! He lied to us THROUGH SONG.
If that don't warrant removing a very tiny beverage, I don't know what do.
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It's Christmas! Why do we have to fight!
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I love you all. Equally.
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But say a prayer,
pray for the other ones
At Christmastime it's hard,
but when you're having fun
There's a world outside your window,
and it's a world of dread and fear
Where the only water flowing
is the bitter sting of tears
And the Christmas bells that ring there
are the clanging chimes of doom
Well tonight thank God it's them
instead of you
Do you hear that, people? CLANGING CHIMES OF DOOM. Think of the children!! The children WITHOUT ANY TINY DR PEPPER AT ALL.
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The dude is taking credit for coining a word he did not coin! He lied to us THROUGH SONG.
If that don't warrant removing a very tiny beverage, I don't know what do.
When my cousin credited authorship of the phrase "No votes for Motz" to me when Paul Motz ran for Senior Class President, a friend said "He can't take credit for that. It's too obvious. A million people came up with that." Oh, is Google watching? Hi Paul. How's law school?
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I love you all. Equally.
Naah, I love some of you better than others. But still, no fighting.
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All TOUAMB board members are equal, but some are more equal than others.
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When my cousin credited authorship of the phrase "No votes for Motz" to me when Paul Motz ran for Senior Class President, a friend said "He can't take credit for that. It's too obvious. A million people came up with that." Oh, is Google watching? Hi Paul. How's law school?
Um, I don't get it.
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Um, I don't get it.
I think "Motz" rhymes with "votes," but it took me a second. (I initially parsed it as being pronounced "Mott's," like the people who make applesauce, which totally destroyed the joke. Or what I presume to be the joke, anyway.)
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Ha, if gunt is actually used in the parlance of our times, I blame Beatrice.
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Blaming someone else, huh?
Well, I'm going to give some extra Dr Pepper cans away... for the holidays.
Be of good cheer, people, and try not to eat any bad stuff and thus incur AD's wrath over the holidays.
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I think "Motz" rhymes with "votes," but it took me a second. (I initially parsed it as being pronounced "Mott's," like the people who make applesauce, which totally destroyed the joke. Or what I presume to be the joke, anyway.)
It's not so much a joke as a comparison demonstrating the iffiness of claiming unique authorship of an easily come by word or phrase.