The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Wild Card => Topic started by: wombat on June 18, 2008, 01:31:37 pm
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From today's Washington Post:
Montgomery County's emergency e-mail notification system failed to send alerts about Sunday night's major water main break and the risk for unhealthy drinking water to tens of thousands of residents because the two employees who know how to operate the system were out of town, the county's top homeland security official said yesterday.
When those two employees couldn't be reached, a third employee who was supposed to know how to run it said that he had never been trained, said Gordon Aoyagi, the homeland security director. A fourth employee who was found eight hours later knew how to operate it but failed to send out any alerts. Residents and businesses learned of the water problem primarily through the media.
This is only the latest of this sort of infrastructure debacle around here - the list of problems on Metro is too long to go into - and in every case, the people in charge don't seem to know what to do in an emergency.
Didn't we used to know how to do this sort of thing, or am I longing for some golden age that never existed? Fortunately, we're just outside the area that still can't drink their water today. But a lot of people around here must feel like they're living in a Third World country - they just got their power back from the last storms and now they don't have safe water. What's next?
I want to move to Japan. I want to live in a country where the trains run on time? Oh, wait, one where there actually are trains, even. They wouldn't put up with this shit. At least if they did screw up this bad, they'd be mortified and commit harakiri. Is that too much to ask?
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I read James Howard Kunstler's "Clusterfuck Nation" blog, and while I periodically want to tell him "Oh LIGHTEN UP," there's just enough to his "We're doomed! DOOMED!" scenarios that it makes me worry.
http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/
A big factor in our decaying infrastructure is the "Taxes are BAD! EVIL BEYOND MEASURE!" mania that's ruled our populace and our elected representatives for the past, I dunno, 40 years or whatever. Taxes pay for public transportation and water mains and non-glamorous shit like that. Need to boil the water, but hey, I saved eight hundred bucks on my property taxes last year! WHOOO!
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Maybe it's due to an overreliance on these sorts of systems and tendency when the primary system doesn't work people just shrug and wait for someone to come and fix it rather than finding an alternative.
I mean, we didn't have mass emergency e-mails even 10 years ago, seems these people could have taken the initiative to get the message out another way.
I mean you're never going to know all the flaws in a system until it fails completely but having the only two people who can fix something be unavailable and just assuming it's not going to screw up over that time period seems a pretty obvious and easily correctable flaw.
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Having an email notification system fail seems kind of trivial... and really the technology (so far as I can tell here) didn't fail, a manager failed to have his department adequately trained and staffed. And in private industry, she should be reprimanded. But when youre the only game in town, why improve?
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But when youre the only game in town, why improve?
A-Cap makes the expected point that competition would improve the situation. It's hard to see how there could be competition in providing water. But more to the point, in some places - harping on the Japan example again - people are expected to perform to a high standard even if they work for a monopoly. General societal pressure, or some internalized version of general societal pressure, is enough to do the job.
Why don't we have that? Why do we just put up with shit? It's like we've given up. We have no hope for anything but a clusterfuck. Didn't we used to be the greatest nation on Earth, or something?
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Yeah, carlos for the win.
Everything went to hell because snake oil (and regular oil) salesmen have slowly gone in and gutted the public sphere with their promises that "private industry can do better!" that... for some God unknown reason, the rubes bought... and now all the infrastructure that needs to be shared for a short and long term stable society is crumbling.
Basically since FDR, telling the lie that government can't do anything right and then cynically making it a self-fulfilling prophesy, the conmen themselves escaping with a golden parachute that takes their great-great grandchildren into The Inheritance Class... the new landed gentry.
A nation of greedy lazy half-blind fools, chasing the crumbs on their own instead of taking and sharing the pie that they themselves baked and... here we are.
Nothing works except Wal-Mart because The Wal-Mart people took two and a half generations to make it that way.
One hopes that if we get through what's happening and what will happen soon, the cunning intellect of collective desperation will cut through the ignorant malase of get-rich-quick schemes and Bible thumping, once again, as it did in the thirties.
It's that or Western Civilization as we know it going bye-bye.
The rich always forget that there need to be strong middle classes and a non-starving poor for social stability after a generation or three or largesse.
The problem with people is that we're fuck*ng mayflies and we willfully forget this shit all every forty years or so with a new group of greedy amoral shitburgers.
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but things used to be simpler, both in infrastructure systems and in the quantity of populations that system supports.
Sometimes I wonder if this is part of it but then I remember the Japanese again... they manage to run the bullet train on time, and that's not a simpler infrastructure than it used to be, you know?
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In case you missed it, this was a failure of a government owned and operated public service, not Wal-Mart.
Privately supplied water could work in a couple different ways. Making the customers shareholders who can vote on management is one way.
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Thanks Ash for making that post so I didn't have to. You basically took the words out of my mouth. Only you probably said it better than I.
LFM, I fuck*ng KNEW Wal Mart was behind this.
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Government in this country is the crack-whore sister you have to cut off. She may die. She may have an ugly ugly period of detox before the mind clears enough to resort and reprioritize the way things work in her life. But you gotta take that step because if you keep slipping her a hundo at need she's certainly going to choke to death on her own vomit under a bridge somewhere.
Hasn't this become a self-fulfilling prophecy, though? We've been told "Government sucks," and then they cut funding to infrastructure, oversight, etc., and then when there's a salmonella outbreak we hear "See, this is because government sucks so much!"
Are there instances where government is not the solution, and where individuals are corrupt and as a result the public trust suffers? Of course. On the other hand, the fox has been running the hen house for a while now. Look at the lead-based paint in toys--did we fail to catch that because government inherently sucks, or because someone with an overly-pro-business agenda decided the CPSC shouldn't have any money for inspectors?
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Look, here's more:
USDA food inspector told to "drop the matter" when bring up violations. (http://consumerist.com/381336/usda-accused-of-bullying-inspectors-who-reported-safety-violations)
Private industry regulates itself well, except when the rest of the industry doesn't want you to, and the revolving-door government counterparts forbid it, as with this beef producer who wanted to test for mad cow (http://consumerist.com/tag/moos-from-the-swamp/?i=5010931&t=bush-administration-to-meatpackers-please-stop-testing-for-mad-cow-disease).
Remember that Minnesota bridge collapse? Earlier that year the Minnesota governor vetoed a transportation bill (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/tax-cut-death-toll) that would have put money towards road work, solely because he'd pledged "no new taxes."
There's plenty more examples to be found. Do these examples show that government is inherently bad, or that government, as it's been run for the past decade, is acting counter to the greater public interest?
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I believe it can be reduced to rationally myopic decisions coming from policy makers. Implementing policy that works well for the next election cycle and fails in the long term is preferred over policy that is painful in the short run and beneficial in the long run. Private firms gain from doing just the opposite, investing in the long term viability of its projects in order to see the greatest return. Govt programs benefit most by leveraging the future for immediate gain. See: Social Security and deficit spending - The next generation, which is conveniently too young to vote or be taken seriously, is shouldered with compounding debts so previous generations can reap immediate benefit.
The generation to first receive social security essentially won the lottery without even buying a ticket. Money came to people who never had to pay forward into or pay back into social security. Following this logic, the president should just one day announce that he is mailing checks to every American... oh wait.
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Implementing policy that works well for the next election cycle and fails in the long term is preferred over policy that is painful in the short run and beneficial in the long run. Private firms gain from doing just the opposite, investing in the long term viability of its projects in order to see the greatest return.
I'll bet that's a big part of it but I disagree with your distinction between public and private here. My understanding of the problems in a lot of industries, like newspapers and publishing, is that they're due to being pushed to show huge profits RIGHT NOW, even if they achieve that by doing things that are detrimental in the long run. Getting rid of all your most experienced - and therefore highest paid - staff looks great for the bottom line in the short run, but is not so good for the product you're turning out in the long run, for example.
A-Cap, the pure capitalism you always envision in your posts sounds like a wonderful thing. The problem is that I don't see it working that way in real life.
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Do the citizens have the metaphorical balls to call the liars out and accept the burden of responsibility?
My immediate reaction to this was to wail "No, and that's the problem!"
But then I remembered a bright spot which I will relate to make up for starting this depressing thread: My district has had the same congressman for longer than I have lived here. He never did anything good that I could tell, but because this district wouldn't elect a Republican even if he promised eternal life and free ice cream, the guy kept getting re-elected.
Well, two primaries ago, someone almost beat him in the Democratic primary. This time around, she did beat him.
He immediately proved what an asshole he was, and how much he'd deserved to be booted out, by actually resigning before his term was up. Yesterday we had to have a special election - I don't want to think about how much money that wasted - to fill his seat till the next election.
But, how satisfying. We booted a bum out. We did it. He even proved what a bum he was after we did it. It feels good.
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I'll bet that's a big part of it but I disagree with your distinction between public and private here. My understanding of the problems in a lot of industries, like newspapers and publishing, is that they're due to being pushed to show huge profits RIGHT NOW, even if they achieve that by doing things that are detrimental in the long run. Getting rid of all your most experienced - and therefore highest paid - staff looks great for the bottom line in the short run, but is not so good for the product you're turning out in the long run, for example.
A-Cap, the pure capitalism you always envision in your posts sounds like a wonderful thing. The problem is that I don't see it working that way in real life.
I'm not arguing for a pure capitalist state here. I'm just pointing to well founded flaws of government policy known to political scientists and economists alike. Theres a difference between my philosophy dream, and my argument for policy evolution.
True, firing highly paid senior staff may show an immediate gain in profit. However, you'll find that investors are not that dumb and can in fact differentiate between a desperate short term move and policy that shows long term growth potential. Not only can they differentiate these maneuvers, they reward the latter much greater than the first. Speculators may attempt to capture gains from such short term decisions, but they are actually a leaf in the wind of the greater picture.
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Ash, we are not that far apart then. I'm talking out of my ass seeing as I don't live in California, but my understanding is the "two-third referendum for any new taxes!" has been something of a mess, yes? Instead of letting elected officials sort out what money goes where, suddenly voters are expected to be experts on how money should be allocated and policy debates get watered down to their most basic, absurd levels. "Either you support giving money to _________ or you hate it and you're evil!" Which results in chunks of change being thrown around with limited discretion, when stuff does manage to pass.
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Ash, we are not that far apart then. I'm talking out of my ass seeing as I don't live in California, but my understanding is the "two-third referendum for any new taxes!" has been something of a mess, yes? Instead of letting elected officials sort out what money goes where, suddenly voters are expected to be experts on how money should be allocated and policy debates get watered down to their most basic, absurd levels. "Either you support giving money to _________ or you hate it and you're evil!" Which results in chunks of change being thrown around with limited discretion, when stuff does manage to pass.
As opposed to politicians, who are experts on how money should allocated? Who water down debate to absurd levels of Log Rolling, "Either you vote for this, or your bill will never get past my committee!"
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Puppies!
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As opposed to politicians, who are experts on how money should allocated? Who water down debate to absurd levels of Log Rolling, "Either you vote for this, or your bill will never get past my committee!"
Point taken, but individual instances aside, I'd rather take my chances with a group of elected officials and/or career bureaucrats, who may be intelligent and have the best interests of the country at heart, than with the population at large, which without fail is made up mostly of complete dumb-asses.
It's like that movement a few years ago to "privatize Social Security." Sorry, I don't trust my fellow citizens to manage their retirement funds particularly well.
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Just got this week's New Yorker and this (http://www.newyorker.com/images/2008/06/23/cartoons/080623_cartoon_a_a13358_p465.gif) seemed relevant.
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If it's any comfort, every British person feels that Britain is going to hell in a handbasket, despite it being a very good place to live as a human being. All the French people I know feel the same about France, despite it also being a good place to live as a human being. All the Irish.. etc. Hell, Britain under Thatcher was, by accounts of nearly everyone I know who lived in that time, was appalling, but you still get people who wish for those 'good old days'.
The media and human mind portrays it all this way, that every 'Western' country in the world is somehow degrading and corrupting itself to the point of no return. And it's probably been the same since the dawn of time, once a country/culture has finished its ascendancy and reached a flat things seem to be getting worse, because things aren't getting better, just fluctuating slightly. Yes, China and India are experiencing a real boom currently, but it's the same boom we've experienced, in VERY simplistic terms they're 'catching up' to our levels of economic power per capita. And they too will reach a zenith, and worry that the country is beginning to fail.
My limited experience of life may be showing me up here, but I have a kind of confidence that the current problems in America, Britain, everywhere will be addressed when they reach the point that there is no avoiding them, or the circumstances change to permit a solution etc. New problems will spring up, the old problems will eventually re-occur, but nothing bar the fundamental problems of human nature seem to be permanent in society. And you've got to live with those.
OR Western civilisation is going to implode spectacularly a la the Western Roman Empire.
Go easy on me, I am young, this is mostly just to provoke alternate/more realistic viewpoints on such things to broaden my horizons.
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OR Western civilisation is going to implode spectacularly a la the Western Roman Empire.
See, that's the thing. I think we all kind of assume that that can't happen to us. I'm sure the Romans assumed the same.
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See, that's the thing. I think we all kind of assume that that can't happen to us. I'm sure the Romans assumed the same.
Yeah, it's that single point which invalidates the rest of my post really.
Anyone up for drawing parallels between collapse of Roman civilisation and perceived collapse of ours? How 'til the famous Sack of Washington?
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What good ol days exactly? Before we had electricity? The internet? Motor cars?
Do you want to go to the time when segregation was legal? When Africans were traded as a commodity? Before we had innoculations and heart surgery?
By what measure is society declining? By every metric the quality of life is in fact improving across the board. Less starving people, less people living under poverty, more people working, living healthier, longer lives.
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See, that's the thing. I think we all kind of assume that that can't happen to us. I'm sure the Romans assumed the same.
This is something that occurred to me last night after I posted, the people in question in the article probably thought it didn't matter if the one person who could fix a problem wasn't available because the default state in our culture seems to be that nothing that bad can go wrong and if it does it will turn out alright in the end. The people of age to be running shit at the moment barely remember the second world war, few have known true hardship, all their experiences add up to tell them that long term most things turn out ok. This does not mean this will continue to be the case.
Just to shoot my mouth off, if we contrast with Japan who only just got out of a recession a bit over a decade ago over there people know you have to take care of stuff or it goes to shit.
What good ol days exactly? Before we had electricity? The internet? Motor cars?
Re-read his post, I don't think Judy is saying we should go back to the good old days, in fact the point I got was that general nostalgia is a symptom of this shared illusion that everything is getting worse when in fact things are about as good as they've ever been if not better.
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Doc, you remind me of another thing about Japan - I used to have a Japanese roommate just my age, and it was clear that World War II loomed much larger in her mind than it did it mine. She often explained things about Japanese culture or cuisine with reference to the deprivation of the war that her parents had told her about.
Of course, she could have just had very talkative parents or a special interest in history - I can't speak for her whole generation. But if that memory is more alive there, I think it makes sense that people wouldn't always assume that everything always would be OK without much effort. Which I think is a good description of America now. We think we'll always be Number One, you know? It just goes without saying so we don't have to work at it.
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I used to have a Japanese roommate just my age, and it was clear that World War II loomed much larger in her mind than it did it mine.
That could be because Japan suffered much greater hardship during and after the war. Our suffering as a nation basically ended suddenly in 1945 on VJ and VE day. Japan not only suffered greater during the war their suffering went on for years afterwards. They had to live down defeat, American occupation, a long reconstruction phase. The war didn't end for them really until into the 50's. And of course two of their cities were completely annihilated and that shit will forever be etched into their psyche.
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Yeah I wasn't going to bring the war (invoking hiroshima in an argument kind of seems like invoking jesus or hitler; you can use it to prove just about anything) but you have to figure it has a big effect on their cultural psyche, the very real knowledge that the worst thing you can imagine can happen has to have an influence.
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Paul makes a good point about the war not being over in Japan till the 50s, one that could only be made by someone who paid more attention in history class than I did.
I think we need more puppies now.
(http://www.rebsig.com/kogepan/bostontea.jpg)
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This is ACAP reminding you to spay or neuter your pets.
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But if you don't and you end up with six Boston terriers in a bowl like that, I'll take ALL of them.
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Okay, I am a long-time lurker, and I am so so sorry that my being motivated to post here for the first time is in a random political thread. You guys are awesome! Seriously!
But this:
I want to move to Japan. I want to live in a country where the trains run on time? Oh, wait, one where there actually are trains, even. They wouldn't put up with this shit. At least if they did screw up this bad, they'd be mortified and commit harakiri. Is that too much to ask?
...just spurs me to feel I need to post. I have my Bachelor's in Japanese, I work as a translator, I've spent a lot of time Japan, and I have a number of friends/roommates who have lived there in the span of years.
The trains in Japan do not always run on time. It's true enough that trains rarely run late because of infrastructure difficulties, but when they do not run on time, the primary cause is because people are jumping on the tracks to kill themselves. It's a phenomenon common enough to have its own term (tobikomi-jisatsu; "plunging suicide") and its own official government euphamism (jishin-jiku; "human accident").
Japan has one of highest suicide rates of any first-world country, and it's largely because of those personal standards they hold themselves to. (I don't know if you were being serious with the line about them committing harakiri if they messed up, wombat, but it's honestly pretty accurate.) The Japanese are masters of the art of suicide, both grotesque (as the farmer last month who drank a bottle of pesticide and then threw it up, poisoning at least 50 around him) and sensational (as the newscaster last month who suffocated herself in her car several weeks after posting a disturbing note in her blog about how she had become a demon).
Seriously. I mean, I love Japan; there's a lot to love about Japan. It's a beautiful and fantastic and very efficient country. But there's also a lot about them that is not to be envied.
Anyway sorry I'll go now and let you guys talk about puppies I promise.
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A quality first post
Hi. Have a seat. Try the veal. Or sushi, if that's your preference.
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Hi. Have a seat. Try the veal.
Try the can.
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Seriously. I mean, I love Japan; there's a lot to love about Japan. It's a beautiful and fantastic and very efficient country. But there's also a lot about them that is not to be envied.
I know. But dammit, at least when the trains are late because someone jumped on the tracks that's a good reason.
Also, black sesame ice cream. Why can't we have that here, too?
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Try the can.
Or better yet, try it in the can.
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Or better yet, try it in the can.
Are you offering? Because I've had my eye on you for some time.
I think it was the Indian buffet photo that got me.
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http://wbztv.com/local/gloucester.high.school.2.751873.html (http://wbztv.com/local/gloucester.high.school.2.751873.html)
I dont know what it is, but this really hits me in the gut.
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Are you offering? Because I've had my eye on you for some time.
I think it was the Indian buffet photo that got me.
It's better to give than receive.
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http://wbztv.com/local/gloucester.high.school.2.751873.html (http://wbztv.com/local/gloucester.high.school.2.751873.html)
I dont know what it is, but this really hits me in the gut.
Sad state of affairs, yes, but I have to admit, the first thing I thought when I read
"We found out one of the fathers is a 24-year-old homeless guy," he told Time.
was, "Dammit, where were these girls when I was 24? I owned a condo when I was 24."
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Yeah but none of them were even 16, young virile etc. be damned have you spoken to a 15 year old girl lately?
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Yeah but none of them were even 16, young virile etc. be damned have you spoken to a 15 year old girl lately?
I don't think he wants to have a conversation with them.
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"Dammit, where were these girls when I was 24? I owned a condo when I was 24."
Yea, maybe im just jealous.
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I don't think he wants to have a conversation with them.
I don't know I'd want to run the risk. They might open their mouths at any time.
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I don't know I'd want to run the risk. They might open their mouths at any time.
Yes, well we know what to do in that case.
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Does this still count as a discussion of what's wrong with our culture or are we actively providing examples now?
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I dunno, but I'm actively providing a can for that one.
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To wrench this back on topic, because it is after 1 AM and I should be asleep but would apparently rather be typing deliriously, there are many, many businesses running into the same short-term profit cycle that is currently gutting our infrastructure. The worst thing a business can do right now isn't to ignore their long-term goals. It isn't to lose the confidence of their customers. It isn't even to lose their most valuable employees. It's to miss a quarterly projection.
When stocks drop significantly on a warning that the coming quarter may be less profitable than the previous year's quarter, executives listen. After all, they get gigantic bonuses when they make their number every quarter. In this world, outsourcing an entire product team to India is a great move, because you get to get rid of all of those pesky domestic salaries and replace them with a nice cheap bill from an outside consultant firm. If the product's shit, it'll still be profitable and you can terminate that contract without any of those silly severance packages that you had to use last time. Besides, that shit product won't come to market until you've made 8 more quarterly bonuses.
Companies that live by the quarter defer maintenance. They ship early. They freeze salaries or hiring. They underfund or close down their research and development. They lean on perma-temps. They don't look at what makes the best product, they look at what can make more profit. They time launches for the best window and biggest impact, not by when they think the product will be ready. They announce mandates via press release before they inform their employees. They subcontract their HR services.
Health insurance companies that live by the quarter give bonuses to employees that can find the most claims to deny. Construction conglomerates that live by the quarter cut back on inspections because if they find something wrong it will hurt their profits. Pharmaceutical companies that live by the quarter don't work on new antibiotics because there isn't enough profit in them if they come to market too early. Those same companies don't look for cures any more, they look for treatments that can be extended indefinitely. Electric companies that live by the quarter stop building plants at their needed rate because they will be able to sell their existing power for more once the power supply falls behind demand. Oil companies that live by the quarter slow down their refinery building rate for the same reasons. Automobile manufacturers that live by the quarter stop researching efficiency and start researching new headrest-mounted DVD players that they can sell for more profit than 2 MPG will ever fetch.
The election cycle is vicious, but let's not kid ourselves that private enterprise as a whole does it any better. There are good government programs and there are profitable companies that don't mortgage their future, but they're far between. We hold our politicians and our corporations to the same immediate requirements and we get the same myopic leadership from them. Just as more taxes won't do anything if the non-essential spending isn't cut, higher profits don't make companies treat their workers better or produce better products if they don't have the corporate culture to support that.
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(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/Sellingselling/OHNOOO.jpg)
PewPewPew ...... S'KDOOSH
I watch a lot of financial news and apparently a sharp rise in oil today was the result of rising tensions between Iran and Israel. Iran, which is thousands of miles away from Israel did missile tests missiles that can barely reach Iraq. And apparently the pictures of the test were obviously photoshopped (Straight up cut and paste style). A little on edge maybe?
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I just want to know: what have they done to my Good Humor Chocolate Eclair bars? They're completely unrecognizable. What is this country coming to?
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(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/Sellingselling/OHNOOO.jpg)
And apparently the pictures of the test were obviously photoshopped (Straight up cut and paste style). A little on edge maybe?
Not only that, but the images were from a test conducted over a year ago. That makes for cheap saber rattling.
Iran: "Hey Wall Street, BOOGA BOOGA"!
(Dozens of traders crap themselves and reach for the Maalox.)
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I conducted my own missile tests today.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/Sellingselling/OHNOOO.jpg)
Now I TOO am a world player.
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You forgot to photoshop yourself into the lower part of the picture, holding an unidentifiable remote-control looking device.