The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
The Wide World of Webcomics => Not Daisy Owl => Topic started by: pmcd9 on December 16, 2011, 07:22:38 pm
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I wrote a review late last night, but then deleted it a little while later. Anyway, what I was getting at, what did y'all think of sMets new comic?
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I wrote a review late last night, but then deleted it a little while later. Anyway, what I was getting at, what did y'all think of sMets new comic?
I haven't read it all, but I did give a copy to a friend of mine who is really into comics. He said he will read it and pass it on to someone else.
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It's okay if you all think it was terrible. I just dig that you all gave it a chance.
I'm startin' to write a third one either way.
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To be perfectly honest Mike, I deleted my review because I thought it was too critical even though I was trying to give it a fair shake. And I didn't want to be mean, especially given that it was my harping that made you put it out there. I didn't entirely hate it though.
I've given it to my roommate who also loves comics so the jury is still out.
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I need to read it again to say more but my main first impression was, I found it somewhat difficult to follow just in the sense of which text bubbles to read in what order. I am not smart about talking about art so this may not make sense but, I felt like you definitely had a style which was great, and the way you placed the bubbles was part of that style, but you need to figure out how to do that and still have a little more clarity.
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I mean, I'm sorry you didn't like it, p, but I appreciate your honesty.
I'm not a great artist and I was definitely writing it self-indulgently, it's jokes and concepts that make me smile before anything else.
It's the second time I've tried such a thing. I think I'm getting better.
But as a rough little pocket-sized storyboard for the kinda show I'd wanna see on Adult Swim at 1:30 in the morning, I'm glad I made it.
And wombat, yeah, on my next one, I think I'm gonna have my girlfriend help me with the lettering stuff more, maybe even have her do the whole lettering digitally, I dunno.
I was trying to get across a sense of kinda embittered characters who rant and ramble and talk over each other and... I went too far, probably.
I was dialoguing for a film but in a comic and I do have to get better at that.
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It isn't the lettering that is the problem. I like the lettering and it's perfectly legible and it has its own style. It's the layout of the text.
Take the third page: Once I have read all the text, I understand that I should have read first "How do you even type..." and then "Same way I..." But when I first look at it, my eye is drawn to read "Same way..." first.
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So far I like the little French dude, but I've only read like ten panels.
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So here are some more comments on the comic instead of doing my own work.
Here are some things that amused me: The explanation of the name of the store. "Fightin' Tangerines.' The UPS lady scene. The panel on the fifth page where he says "No? Nothing?" after being so loud in the previous panel. The name "Starchild McPherson." A genie in a bong. "Editor's Note." "Haven't you ever seen Twilight Zone... it's like a law" and his example wishes. "Fuckin modestly attractive boss."
And I like the pineapple. Is that supposed to refer to something I don't get, or is that just plain wacky?
However, I find on re-reading that I am having some trouble following the big picture even after figuring out how to follow the text balloons in each individual panel. I hate to say this because it makes me want to punch someone in the face when they say this to me, but the plot isn't quite clear. I don't understand why trying to bootleg future music would result in raising Zombie Jerry Garcia (although Zombie Jerry Garcia also amused me) or does that happen because the two ladies are also getting a wish from the genie? And I had to re-read several time to work out what happens from the appearance of Jerry Garcia to the end. You explain that Guns and Roses is the opposite of Jerry Garcia so that is a weapon against him, OK, but plot-wise, is that the song he got from the future, and does that matter?
Also I don't get a lot of the pop culture references - I don't know who the baseball player is and in the page where the song is playing , if those are spoof lyrics, they go right past me. That is not a criticism but just so you know - that is the sort of thing where maybe you just have to decide that I am not your intended audience.
Also those twin ladies with the weird faces. Who are they? Customers? They work there? Greek chorus?
And almost entirely off topic: this made me think that someone should write a comic about a UPS lady.
In sum, I think you have some funny stuff in here, but I think you need to make it easier to follow and clearer to those of us who don't know everything you know.
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arent you glad to have such intelligent and well-spoken people who care about you to tear your stuff to shreds?
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Behold Téléfrancais! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBSflK1FTSY). LFM and I have been chatting a bit about it on FB. I haven't read the comic, but I noticed he had a French Pineapple in the pictures he posted and made the connection. I was forced to watch this show in school, as were several folks of my generation. Not sure how LFM came to it. I know he grew up near the Canadian border, so perhaps there was a station he saw as a kid that carried the show? That one boy is the ultimate skeptic - he refuses to believe Pineapples talk, even when directly confronted with the fact that there is a mother fuckin' pineapple right in front of him chatting it up. Téléfrancais is as fucked up as children's programming gets. Non-sensical, but also with a slight sense of doom about the whole thing.
As for not getting the reference, I showed Téléfrancais to my hubby yesterday, and although we are only three years apart in age, he had never heard of it or seen it before.
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arent you glad to have such intelligent and well-spoken people who care about you to tear your stuff to shreds?
He should be. I wish I had more people like that.
This made me think, though, what a pain in the ass it must be to make a comic. It's hard enough when someone gives me feedback and I have to rewrite something. At least I don't have to also redraw it and make it fit in the right place on the page. Ugh.
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Behold Téléfrancais! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBSflK1FTSY).
WTF. It is like French surrealist children's TV. When the plane landed and the creepy-looking pilot showed up I had to stop watching. Stuff of nightmares.
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Yeah, the pineapple is a parody of that character from Telefrancais... because that is the most fucked-up character on the most fucked-up kids' show ever. I've been obsessed with how messed up that show was since middle-school French class (where we were forced to watch it) and a less-awful cuter version of him has always been in my notebooks and he sorta evolved into an innocent counterpoint to my more cynical characters. I have a whole backstory about the little dude, for better or for worse.
As to wombles' questions:
Yeah, the hippie twins are vapid college girls who hang out there and rarely buy anything. Because the genie's stoned, he overheard their wish and just went with it. The song was just what I imagined Axl Rose would write, living in his weird rich people bubble, just about how rich he is and how he's basically the Howard Hughes of his generation and... would serve a Mr. Burns like role in the universe of Johnny Tripod if I basically ever make enough stories.
Chris Sabo is just a baseball player who had the quirk of always wearing goggles. I'll cop to that just being a very specific cultural reference that... I always found really funny and liked to pretend he wore them to conceal X-Men-type superpowers.
I have taken your criticism to heart, though, and I am going to be a lot more deliberate in my word bubble placement on the next one I do. You have a good point there, I'm not sure if there's like an art theory book on how to make that sort of thing clearer in a comic book but... I'm going to focus on that. At least run the layout of word bubbles by more people as I work.
I thought that playing fast and loose with it would create a frenetic style that matched at least Johnny's character but clearly I gotta work on that.
Like I say, it is not excusing anything but this is the second time I've ever tried to draw a full story and I am learning as I go.
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Scott McCloud has a book that is basically the Theory of How to Tell Stories with Drawings. I think the one I read was Understanding Comics?
I remember someone telling me that one of them is really good, and the other one goes way off into horrible pretentious territory. Forget which one is which.
I just got my copy of LFM comic because my roommate had all the mail in a pile under a coat (??). Will read today.
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I look forward someday to the prequel that explains the pineapple's backstory.
The other stuff - I think it's a shame you didn't flesh out your idea of the baseball player thing, it would have been funny. The thing is, I think it's exactly right to write stuff starting with basically the private jokes in your head. But the point is to share them! So you have to spell it out more so other people get it.
I thought that playing fast and loose with it would create a frenetic style that matched at least Johnny's character
I think the lettering style does that, actually, without getting in the way of clarity. You don't need to overdo it. And you could still place the word bubbles more creatively in panels that don't have so many words.
I hope it is clear from my comments that they're meant to say that you have got the hard stuff right. You have ideas, and an art style, and a writing style. The other stuff is just mechanics, and that, you can learn to be better at, with practice and getting more feedback. And there must be books - as well as Inev's suggestion, there are actually college programs in this stuff now. Surely they have textbooks. Which, being textbooks, might be 75% idiotic, but there is surely stuff you could take from them while throwing away the rest.
OK, now this was about to turn into a long post about the lessons I have collected on how to deal with people's feedback on your creative work but it occurs to me that this is just a way of avoiding actually doing work right now. Maybe some other time.
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Just stumbled across the fact that Lynda Barry is on Tumblr, and learned that this is the book she uses in her classes, which seems like a high recommendation to me:
http://www.amazon.com/Cartooning-Philosophy-Practice-Ivan-Brunetti/dp/0300170998 (http://www.amazon.com/Cartooning-Philosophy-Practice-Ivan-Brunetti/dp/0300170998)
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I only had time to read the first book, but I would just like to say that I have had the same problem as Wombles about reading things out of sequence, but also that I often have that problem with "regular" comic books that don't stick to a strict panel format, so take from that what you will.
As for the story, it made me laugh. ;D
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mean version: I found it kind of disorienting. Something about panel layout combined with art style made it hard for me to follow the flow. I agree with Wombat that I would love some things explained a little more, although I do not know how you explain things like the Cincinnati Reds guy without ruining the joke.
friend version: I liked it. You definitely have a very similar writing voice to my high school best friend, who come to think of it is like the bizarro version of you. Went to SUNY Purchase, comes from HEAVY money, lives in Brooklyn but is 0% hipster, loves music that I do not love at all. I think you would get along on matters of Comics and Movies and maybe Music. He is also, so far, evidence for the LFM theory that if you have enough inherited money to throw at your career, you can kind-of make it in entertainment. Although, "so far" is not too far at all.
I look forward to the next installment. Your money is coming with a mix cd as apology for not sending the money faster.
update: geez, I KNOW I had the beginnings of SFLFM somewhere. It's hard to make a CD a dude won't hate.
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Finally got around to it. I really enjoyed it. I see where wombat is coming from but I don't think it's an uncommon problem with comics, but could use some work. It's the type of series I wouldn't mind spending more time with. Sorry, I'm a terrible critic. Wish I had something more constructive.
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I can't balance my checkbook unless a dude cashes my check.
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I can't balance my checkbook unless a dude cashes my check.
shoulda sent a money order.
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I can't balance my checkbook unless a dude cashes my check.
I think something went wrong, I woke up and am twenty years in the past. Does anyone know a way to the present?
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I think something went wrong, I woke up and am twenty years in the past. Does anyone know a way to the present?
I know Keith, I know. We don't believe in Paypal here.
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PayPal . . . is just so fucked. Those guys can fuck themselves. Not just because that shit is always fucked up, but also because they contribute to the overwhelming unpleasantness in the world. I can't support that.
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Oh yeah, I am totally on record as saying fuck paypal, I just don't write checks either.
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Oh yeah, I am totally on record as saying fuck paypal, I just don't write checks either.
I see you as not exactly being a member of the grid.
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I see you as not exactly being a member of the grid.
Keith trades exclusively in weed and guitar pedals.
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I write 4 checks a month. Gas, electric, internet, and rent. My roommates pay me back using this thing. (http://paydivvy.com/)
There was a bit of a Thing this week where... I realized I have to Withdraw the money they pay me through this website. I had several months of their share of the rent sitting there. I am rich now!
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We write a check to our music teacher, because he has the same relationship with the grid that KH does. Also the mortgage, because they won't take my credit card and doing it electronically costs an extra $15. Each month. That's so backwards it makes me feel like I ought to be paying them in chickens or barrel staves or some shit. Re-cobbling their shoes. All our other regular monthly bills go directly to credit card (preferably) or out of a bank account electronically.
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Yep. I'll continue to do business with them because they own the note, but I'll never do business with them again and I am actively trying to refi with someone else all the time.
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We write a check to our music teacher, because he has the same relationship with the grid that KH does.
All having to take the check to your bank cause he doesn't have a checking account.
I was like that for a long time, but now I am minimally on the grid so I can
trade exclusively in weed and guitar pedals
more efficiently.
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I'm pretty sure he'd be happier if we paid him in weed and booze.
I guess maybe it says at least two things about being a musician that dude had a riff in his head and he asked us if he could borrow our boxed set of his old band so he could figure out if it was one of their songs?
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So, LFM's comic is only available in physical copy, right. Too bad, I was curious to check it out, even willing to withhold judgment about it.
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Oh, shit...
Dude, I really liked the book, man, I'm sorry!
Things really got weird there for a while.
The, uh, we're still moving stuff back up to Little Falls, man, my girlfriend's doing the last run to the storage facility in Wiliamsburg we have the end of our stuff in right now.
My bad. My bad.
Christ, I forgot so many things during that particular karma tornado. Thank you thank you thank you.
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Aw man, that book was written by Ivan Brunetti. I recently unearthed his 3 issue series "Schizo" which I originally read when it came out in the 90s. Dude's work is BLEAK! How bleak? Issue 2 shows a baby in a stroller committing suicide. It's relentlessly bleak. I can't believe this dude is still alive.
It does contain one of my all time favorite cartoons of a kid with an Anarchy t-shirt getting beat up and yelling for the police.