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[side_show]

I saw this movie over the weekend with my boyfriend and one of his buds.  I work with war veterans as part of my job, and I've noticed recently that watching even fictional war scenes really disturbs me.  This movie shook me up, there were points where I just wanted to close my eyes.  The war in Iraq scares the hell out of me.  So many veterans I talk to tell me about coming back from war unable to function.  Driven to drinking or driven inward so nothing and no one can touch them for years and years.  Unlike Roger and Me or Bowling for Columbine, this movie was much darker – there is less humor, and when there is it’s fleeting. Contrast the weeping Iraqi mother whose son is being taking away without explanation with the weeping American mother whose son came home in a box -the victimization of the Iraqi people under the guise of human rights, and the victimization of the American people under the guise of patriotism.

If you’re American and you have seen or will see this movie, I hope you will have a different experience than I did.  I come out feeling powerless – my boyfriend and his friend both felt the same way.  We’re not stupid enough to think Canadian government has much sway over American government, over in the True North we’re sleeping with the elephant.  For you American’s out there who see this flick, I hope it spurs you to vote.

[linnea]

I'm supposed to see that film later today with a friend. Now I am not so sure. Other friends of mine have said that it would probably hit very close to home for me. I have an extremely difficult time with seeing violence, so much so that I can't even watch the news.

Hmm. Yeah, I think I might be better off seeing another film, despite how much I'd like to see this one.

[jough]

I thought this was a very good film (although not a great one, like Bowling for Columbine) but I don't know if this is the kind of film that anyone "enjoys."

It is a propaganda film, designed to piss off and outrage the audience about what the leader of the free world has been doing with his all-access backstage laminate to the seat of power.

The audience when I saw it was getting more vocal by the last third of the film, booing Bush whenever he appeared on screen.  And at one point near the end of the film a woman screamed "YOU fuck*ng MURDERER!"

It was pretty powerful.  The film got a huge ovation at the end, although it wasn't standing.

Anyway, this is certainly an event film, the kind that must be seen with an audience.

I would recommend that EVERYONE see it, regardless of your political views.  If you stay informed there may not be much new information in the film, but the tone and arrangement of that information is a damning indictment of not only G.W., but of the legacy of the American president (all of them, including the much loved Clinton).

Some of the Iraq footage is a little hard to bear, but for anyone that lost someone to war it may be cathartic to see the film.

[jough]

P.S. Having said all that, the film is also very funny.

Of course, Bush gets all the best one-liners.

[Bozack]

Of course, Bush gets all the best one-liners.

Now watch this drive.

[jough]

Yeah, when I saw that in the trailer I thought it was an editing trick.  I couldn't belive my fuck*ng eyes when it was an uncut shot from the week after 9/11.

Is anyone planning on voting for this guy?  

I did the first time, mostly as a vote against Al Gore, but then again, our votes didn't really count last election, other than the nine of the Supreme Court.

If anyone ever wondered if America was a democracy*, they know for sure now that it isn't.







* And yes, I know the U.S. is not a democracy, but a Democratic Republic, but work with me here, people.

[slink]

* And yes, I know the U.S. is not a democracy, but a Democratic Republic, but work with me here, people.

Wow. Someone else who says so. I have been saying this for years now, and no one seems to understand why, despite me explaining it to them. Either that or no one else is in the least moved by this fact.
I need to stop getting so bent out of shape about politics...

Oh, and I do want to see this film. I tried to download it but it turned out to be good will hunting in disguise...!?!?!?

[linnea]

Well, I saw the film last night.

I wasn't able to write a review of it, however, I did post a hella emo journal entry about it.

http://Somebody nice.typepad.com/linnea/2004/07/fahrenheit_911.html

I was crying not five minutes into the film at the footage of the WTC attacks. By the end of the film... I almost felt bad for crying during the WTC footage, and I don't know if that was what Moore was trying to get at. I felt bad because people in other countries live with attacks like that every goddamn day.

It also killed me to see these people crying and grieving in the film, like the Iraqi woman weeping after their house was decimated in an American bombing, and asking God where he was...or the American woman whose son was killed in Iraq. I felt angry when I saw their pain being forcibly held in front of me. I just wanted to pull the camera off them and try to comfort them. Gah. It was a very difficult film to watch.

[wombat]

I just saw this tonight.  I actually thought the scariest part was the two Marines chasing after kids at the shopping mall in the bad part of town trying to recruit them.  Well, that and of course the often mentioned film of Bush sitting in the classroom the morning of Sept 11 - the closeups of his face while he's doing nothing, my God, just sitting there.  Unbelievable.

I am not so moved by the people crying in the film because I feel too much manipulated by the filmmaker.  I think he needs to lay off that stuff, if you do it too much it just comes off as cheap and using people.  I think it's also time to lose the traditional M. Moore set piece - in this case, where he's running after congressmen trying to get them to sign their kids up for the army.  You get the feeling that starting with Bowling for Columbine it got hard for Michael Moore to make a Michael Moore movie.  He can't base whole scenes on important people refusing to talk to him anymore, because now when he knocks on the door, they all say, "Oh Hi Michael!  Come in!"

And the thing is, he doesn't need to do that stuff.   This was more like a real movie - not just him walking around with a cameraman following him, resulting in something you felt like you could have made yourself. And it was really quite brilliant in a lot of ways.  He doesn't need that gimmick anymore.

Oh yeah, and I wondered when reading about it how this movie could be funny.  But it was.  Largely a sick sort of black humor but I guess if you're reading this messageboard, that's the kind you like.

Of course this is all the opinion of someone who sees maybe two movies a year so what do I know.  And it was of course half an hour too long like every movie made nowadays but that's another story.

[jough]

Wommie, I agree with you about 90%.

I thought the grieving woman who lost her son was over-played.  It's easy to sucker us in with people weeping.  You can find tragedy anywhere.  That struck me as cheap and in trying to be manipulative, hurt Moore's cause.

The Bonanza thing was funny but also didn't help things.  Just too jokey.

I thought the idea of trying to get congressmen to have their children sign up for the Marines was good - and it was brief - so that didn't bother me.

Yes, those recruiters in the parking lot really need to be dragged out into the street and shot.

All in all, it's a very good film, but it could have been great.

It will be once I get the DVD and make my own cut.

[Carlos del Vaca]

* And yes, I know the U.S. is not a democracy, but a Democratic Republic, but work with me here, people.

Wow. Someone else who says so. I have been saying this for years now, and no one seems to understand why, despite me explaining it to them. Either that or no one else is in the least moved by this fact.
I need to stop getting so bent out of shape about politics...

Why SHOULD anyone be moved by this fact?  Saying "The U.S. is not a democracy" is splitting semantic hairs, as if the only true democracy is Athenian-style where EVERYONE gets together and hashes things out.  We're an indirect democracy, but a democracy nonetheless.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-democracy.htm

[side_show]

I thought the grieving woman who lost her son was over-played.  It's easy to sucker us in with people weeping.  You can find tragedy anywhere.  That struck me as cheap and in trying to be manipulative, hurt Moore's cause.

I was actually thinking about this.  In Bowling for Columbine Moore gently turns the the principal of the school where the first grader was shot away from the camera when she begins to cry, were as in F-9/11 we see the mother full on weeping, and there is no kindness.  This did bother me.  Especially now in perspective, this is both manipulative (for us) and exploitative (for her).

I still stand by my endorsement of the film, but I re-watched Bowling for Columbine a few days ago, trying to figure out why F-9/11, although a emotional and captivating film, didn't resound with me as much as Columbine did.  I can't put my finger on it.  Maybe Bowling for Columbine is broader and more universal?  Maybe it's because being Canadian, I watch America from the outside already and F-9/11 didn't show me anything new.  I liked F-9/11 and reacted to it on a very emotional level, but I didn't carry it with me, it didn't raise any new questions for me.  I already knew Bush was a moron, and a monster of blind ignorance.  I already new the war in Iraq had been orchestrated before it began.

Being as cynical as I am, I always joke that people would be more outraged if it were fluffy kittens that were being killed, rather than Iraqi civilians.

New Announcer's Voice: Over 13000 innocent, fluffy, snuggly kittens have been killed since the U.S began it's attacks.

http://www.iraqbodycount.com/forum/