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Author Topic: I'm thinking about not voting in this election.  (Read 12753 times)

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CortJstr

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« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2004, 10:40:46 pm »

My SO is an athiest and a professional feminist so she's constantly pointing out offhand comments by people that I wouldn't otherwise take notice of (ex. a lot of people are pissed that Ah-nold keeps saying "girlie-men" as an insult).

Because of that I've noticed just how many vague religious references politicians make. Like how they keep saying marriage is "sacred." So there are all kinds of religious conotations and denotations without overtly invoking religious prohibitions.

But that's okay. I know that my God can beat up their god and in the end It will perform a celestial wedgie of epic proportions
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Limmo

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« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2004, 11:04:55 pm »

ETAed out of existence, for the good of just about everyone.
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arkabee

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« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2004, 11:10:26 pm »

la, la, la, cough. cough, cough.  la, la la la la LA.
ok.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG, *gasp*,
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGG!!

*pant*pant*pant*
*gasp*
*wheeze*
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Limmo

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« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2004, 11:14:47 pm »

Has anyone seen Arkabee's inhaler?
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Carlos del Vaca

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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2004, 12:55:40 am »

TalkyDude, thanks for one of the better articulated posts from that side of the fence I've read in quite some time.  

Of course, I still disagree.  My big problem with the "war on terror" is that you cannot fight an abstract noun.  If it was "war with al-Qaeda" and our efforts were focused in that direction, I'd be all for it.  But instead we have this fuzzy definition of "terraists" being whoever Bush and his crew feel like going after.  There have been reports that immediately in the wake of September 11 for someone to cook up a link between those attacks and Iraq.  They knew from the day they took office that they wanted to go to war in Iraq, they just needed an excuse.  And that, in my opinion, will create far more Islamic militants than it eradicates.  Not to mention what their cowboy MO has done to our standing in the rest of the world.  I don't want the rest of the world to hate Americans to varying degrees.  It sucks.

Quote from: "TALKYdude"
But their better nature won out and now we have something like a World War II and a Marshall Plan, but simultaneously, on a rolling start.


World War II had a broad coalition.  The Marshall Plan gave money to the countries that were rebuilding, not to administration cronies like Halliburton who then failed to do what they were being paid way, way too much money to do.  The goals may be admirable when you put them like that, but fact is BushCo is incompetent, and they've completely fucked it up.

Quote
I just don't trust the man to fight this war, and I do trust Bush.


Well, if that's how you feel, I don't know what to tell you.  Personally, I find the suggestion that "Only Bush can defend America," and the insinuation that a Democrat would, I dunno, turn the country over to al Qaeda, to be insulting.  The idea that an American president would willfully fail to defend the homeland is ridiculous.  (You can disagree on how that's to be accomplished, sure.)
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AlohaDawg

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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2004, 01:30:58 am »

I've been a proud member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy my whole life.

I think that the Democratic party is more fragmented than the Republican Party and has been for some time (although the Republican party isn't 100% in cohesive lockstep either). I think the reason is that the diversity of Core Values among the Democarats (on the individual level) is much broader than that of the Republicans.

Obviously this is not an indictment of either party; I think, though, that that fact naturally creates problems when you are trying to appeal to your 'base'. I think that it is easier for the Republicans to identify and address the needs of that base than it is for the Democrats.

I wish I still lived in Chicao, I'd definitely have to buy TalkyDude a beer. I am always intrigued by the fact that people who have lived outside the US or have significant ties outside the US are able to articulate politics in ways that we with only purely 'American' life experience can not. I know that there are many 'Bush Democrats' out there; certainly many more than there are "Kerry Republicans". This is a very interesting election in that there are so few undecided votes to fight over. I wish there was more talk of substantial issues - I still have no idea what Kerry plans to do. I heard some talk that he's a Vietnam veteran; apparently he has met with many world leaders which he can't name and although his assets and his personal campaign contributions exceed his income as a Senator logarithmically, apparently there is no need for his wife to release her tax records. All I want to hear is a platform and a plan; isn't that what the convention was for? And still, nothing beyond some well-exploited statements that make  him look like he changes his mind frequently.

19 years in the Senate should account for something - what is Mr. Kerry's signature issue or namesake legislation?

Yes, I'm voting for Bush. Because I have not heard one single reason to vote FOR Kerry and I don't think it's too smart to vote the other guy nearly blindly because you don't like the incumbent. That's too much like a pig in a poke.
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Carlos del Vaca

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« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2004, 03:02:20 am »

Quote from: "AlohaDawg"
I know that there are many 'Bush Democrats' out there; certainly many more than there are "Kerry Republicans".


Guess we run in different circles, because I know many more Republicans who are fed up with Bush than Democrats who are planning to vote for him.

Quote from: "AlohaDawg"
I wish there was more talk of substantial issues - I still have no idea what Kerry plans to do....All I want to hear is a platform and a plan; isn't that what the convention was for?


Now Dawg, I don't mean to single you out here.  You are far from the first person I've heard state that they don't know what Kerry's platform is.  I could understand that coming from someone who doesn't have access to that Interweb thingy and is reliant on our crappy media to get information.

But I'm surprised to hear this coming from people who are Internet-savvy.  When geeks such as we need information on something?  Google that shit, find the official web site, get the stuff.  So have those of you who are wondering about Kerry's platform visited johnkerry.com?  You can get the whole plan laid out, and if that's not enough detail you can download a whopping big PDF file with more.  Yeah, he spent too much time at the convention flogging his vet status, but even so I'd say there was more discussion of domestic issues at the Democratic convention than at the RNC so far.

Now of course I wish there was more of a real debate on this, but you can blame a lot of parties for that:  our suck-ass media who would rather report bullshit scandals like those Swift Boat fuckers than anything genuine, a right-wing propaganda machine that exploits that condition, a cowed Democratic party that can't get its shit together, and a slack-jawed American public who would rather watch Trading Spouses than talk about the merits of a single-payer health plan.
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Choop

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« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2004, 04:25:41 am »

Firstly: <mod hat="on">Thanks for keeping it civil. Thank you.</mod>

Now: If we're going to discuss the finer points of voting against Kerry, let's not leave out the finer points of voting against Bush.

- The PATRIOT Act has begun the unravelling of the very civil liberties our prior commanders-in-chief and their armies and soldiers died to guarantee for us. Don't invoke their honor when dismissing a decorated veteran who saw wrong in a policy and practice then tried to correct it.

- 1.3 million (1,300,000) more people this year than last live below the line of poverty. The economy is up? Home ownership is up because homes are effectively cheaper: incentive-providing interest rates, "creative" accounting, and sub-standard construction materials and practices allowed for more people to buy homes as investments to dump in the short term. Also, 25 percent of our population is without healthcare of any kind (I join those ranks in a couple weeks, unfortunately) and nearly 6% of us are unemployed. It's better than many countries around the world, but none as developed as we purport to be.

- The No Child Left Behind legislation has arguably left more children behind than it has salvaged. Test scores have not markedly improved, and "teacher accountability" has stressed the budgets of elementary and secondary public schools to the point where overcrowding and out-of-date texts (though being fought) are revealed as the greatest cause of failure. There is such a thing as "environmental accountability" which has yet to be explored.

- Though America and the world may be safer since Hussein was ousted, it must be admitted that our current President had - and this is a biggie - absolutely no legitimate cause to invade Iraq. Doing so eliminated the international support we were granted after the Sep.11 tragedy, and doing so with such poor intelligence information eroded the faith our people require in our administration, our intelligence services, and our armed forces. One order from Bush would have pre-empted the entire issue: "Tell me where in Iraq the WMDs are."

- The prescription drug plan delivered by this administration falls so far short of that promised and needed by our poor, disabled, and senior citizens it can be argued that it leaves each of them off in a worse place. People that could barely afford their medicine previously now can't afford anything but.

- Social Security is gone. Oh, people will still be able to collect for the next few years, but by the time those of us who put in more money for social security per capita than anyone else in its history are eligible to collect it, it won't be there. There was a solution, and a damned good one, but it belonged to the guy who never actually claimed to invent the internet.

- The demeanor and behavior of the administration and their party as a whole has from the start been one of deceit, destruction, and dementia. Okay, not dementia necessarily, but it sure reads well, doesn't it? Cheney's Halliburton back pay for one. Bush's brother's crony and henchfolk barring legally allowed voters from exercising their right, for another. The illegal connection to the Swiftboat group. The revenge on Saddam for an assassination attempt on W's daddy. I could go on, but I just done typed a whole bunch already.

This: I'm self-employed, have been for a month. The wife and I are trying to get our personal chef service off the ground (check our site!) and I've been delivering lunches and marketing to offices, which entails a lot of driving. In the morning, I listen to conservative talk radio (Glenn Beck, Laura Ingram, Rush, Prager) and in the afternoon I listen to moderate talk radio (NPR). I read the New York Times by email and watch the local Fox affiliate news. I avoid cable news like the plague. I do these things to get an all-around view of every issue I can (I'm a Libra, it takes me a lot of information and digestion to make a decision, except from a menu at a restaurant). I claim no party, and probably never will. In this election I'm supporting Kerry, because I know that he'll begin to right the wrongs incurred by George W. Bush and his employees at the White House. He may not finish the job in even two terms, because it's a hell of a task he's got to undertake, and if you don't understand that, well, I don't think I even want to know you.

Edited to add (I know, I know, enough already): That last line was cribbed from a TV show. Sorry. I don't care who you vote for -- well, I do, a little, but I'm only trying to sway, not force, you to do that -- just go vote. Don't throw away a national right, a human right, and a global governmental privilege for which so many have yearned and fought and still yearn and fight.
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arkabee

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« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2004, 05:20:30 am »

did anyone watch ted koppel tonight?  did you see the end segment where he's "chatting" with john stewart?

i'm so sick of lies, and liars.  i'm so sick of the people who are so fuck*ng good at the game but have no purpose except to play the game.  do you want to lead people? no, you want to win. win win win win win. yay, so i guess everyone else just has to lose, huh? you are a winner. yay! go team! wooohoooo!!!

lies. lies lies lies lies lies.

and then there's some truth, somewhere, but it's taken out of context.

i'm going to uncloset myself as a huge dork, but i went to Badger Boys State when i was in high school.  boys state is some, thing, where in "the future leaders of america" go to this campus for a week, and set up a mock government, yadda yadda yadda.

16 year old boys setting up government.

i swear to god it must never have stopped for them, because low and behold it's the same thing.

i remember one kid's campaign to be elected, um, something, was "little, yellow, different."  he was asian and short.  he won, because he based his campaign entirely upon a slogan comparing himself to an over the counter pain medication.

VIVA LA BOYS STATE, WHERE IS MY KING?
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Choop

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« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2004, 05:45:01 am »

Quote from: "arkabee"
i remember one kid's campaign to be elected, um, something, was "little, yellow, different."  he was asian and short.  he won, because he based his campaign entirely upon a slogan comparing himself to an over the counter pain medication.


...the slogan of which was changed, and which then disappeared from the market, due to pressure to be politically correct and not potentially insulting to asians.
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andalucia

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« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2004, 12:11:38 pm »

Quote from: "arkabee"
i remember one kid's campaign to be elected, um, something, was "little, yellow, different."  he was asian and short.  he won, because he based his campaign entirely upon a slogan comparing himself to an over the counter pain medication.


And now it's a pretty good weblog.
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« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2004, 02:42:11 pm »

I saw a bumper sticker on a truck yesterday afternoon that said "Nobody for President" and I cheered!

There's also a hell of funny shirt on tshirthell.com that bites the style of the Bush/Cheney '04 stickers but it says "Do we have to have a president?"  Sorry no link, but it's blocked at work.  If anyone is curious, I work on an Air Force base, so jough, if you're seeing hits from niprnet, it's not the FedGov spying on you, it's just me.  Probably.
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AugustWest

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« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2004, 02:51:30 pm »

You should Google "Nobody for President".  Nobody for President is a touring campaign/event/party/freakout thing put on by Wavy Gravy among other people.  They came to my college campus in 1984 which is where I found out about 'em.  They were, in a word, a hoot.
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jough

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« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2004, 06:56:38 pm »

I get hits from _____.cia.gov all the time.  Maybe they think I'm foreign or something.

It's okay - when the spooks look into my web server, my web server also looks back into THEM.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm a registered Republican, but mostly because ALL of the local politicians are Republican and sometimes I may need them to do things for me.  So it helps to be one of their constituents.

HOWEVER

I'm pretty case-by-case when it comes to the presidency.  I voted for Clinton, I voted for G.W. Bush last election, which I REGRET now because all Bush did was fuck up the country.

So this time I'm debating between Kerry and Nader.   I'm not crazy about Kerry, but I think that he'll be good for the economy, which is my #1 concern right now (being unemployed for about two years - if you don't count my web business) so I won't be voting FOR Kerry as much as AGAINST Bush.

I mean, I knew he was an idiot when I voted for him, but I figured the president doesn't really make any important decisions anyway, and he'd be hand-held by his daddy's friends, whom he gave all of the key positions to.

What I didn't consider was that his daddy's friends would so unabashedly help out their business partners to the detriment of the american people. I mean, they don't even try to hide it.  They have balls, that's for sure.  If this wasn't the 21st century and we didn't consider ourselves civilised we would have beheaded the lot of them by this time.

Also, do you really think 9/11 would have happened if Gore was president at the time?  I thinkn't.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.  You can't really BLAME Bush for 9/11.  It's just another black eye on his presidency.

So in the end I will *probably* vote Kerry, just to make sure that Bush doesn't win again.

Carlos del Vaca

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« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2004, 07:28:48 pm »

Quote from: "jough"
Also, do you really think 9/11 would have happened if Gore was president at the time?  I thinkn't.


Actually, I do.  I think they had been planning it for some time and would have done it either way.  Furthermore, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 I think Gore would have done just about the same things Bush did; thus the "We're so fortunate Bush was our president on 9/11" talk of Guiliani et. al. is freakin' silly.  What, specifically, did Bush do that week that was A. so damn great and B. something no other potential president would have done in the same spot?

Concurrently, I find the "the terrorists want Bush to lose" to be freakin' ridiculous.  I think they will continue to hate us regardless of who our president is.  And if al-Qaeda quakes in their boots at the thought of the mean, terrorist-ass-kickin' Republicans, why did 9/11 happen on their watch, then?[/i]
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