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[Nabubrush]

Rest of the world,

We're sorry.

- 49% of America, 48% of Ohio.

Here, here. Specifically to all you folks on this board who are not citizens of this often backward-ass country, I am sorry for our easily-misled electorate.

[jough]

I'm a registered Republican (you'd be stupid not to be in totally Republican controlled SE PA) and believe in a number of traditional Republican values, but sheesh, Bush is NOT a Republican by most accounts.

I am, however, looking forward to voting for John McCain in 2008. There's a man who is worthy of the office.

Of course, I expect all of your votes in 2012, when I am constitutionally able to take the office of the president.

[Limmo]

I'll let someone else speak for me, in this case The Left Coaster:

Last night, I got about 4 hours of sleep as I simultaneously went through the anger, denial, bargaining, and acceptance stages of grief. Since John Kerry is conceding, however, it's time to turn the page. Those of us who sought to take back our country in two short years were rudely awakened with the realization that it will take a generation instead.

[Nabubrush]

I am, however, looking forward to voting for John McCain in 2008. There's a man who is worthy of the office.

I'm looking forward to that amendment going through that allows Arnold to run. A race between him and Hillary ought to be exciting.

[miles]

What did you guys do last night?

Stared at my hands, sobbing silently, rocking back and forth.  But wait--that's every night for me.  I think last night I actually sobbed out loud.

[Nabubrush]

What did you guys do last night?

Mostly consoled my wife on the phone, and then tossed and turned for awhile. Then I got out of bed, took a couple of sleeping pills, and read some James Ellroy until I finally fell asleep.

[miles]

Not to mention the fact that only part of the Bible that says not to be gay doesn't apply to Christians. It's one of the Old Testament which was effectively voided by Jesus. The whole covenant being fulfilled thing. It's the same reason Christians don't have to keep kosher.

I bet at least half of these stupid motherfuckers are still against interracial marriage too.

You know, that's not exactly true.  First of all, not all Christians "reject" the Old Testament.  I know that Jehovah's Witnesses do, which is (partially, at least) why they don't observe the Sabbath.  And it's not like Jesus said: "OK, guys, I'm here, now let's chuck out that thick book, and I'll replace it with a much shorter one."  When Jesus quoted from scripture in the New Testament, he certianly wasn't quoting Paul and Peter, he was quoting the Old Testament.  I think the Law of Moses is what specifically was fulfilled.  All that stuff about not eating pigs and bats.  So why do Christians still place heavy emphasis on the Ten Commandments?  Well, because Jesus did.  He said that not only shouldn't you commit adultery, you shouldn't lust after a woman in your heart.  Not only shouldn't you murder, but that it's also just as sinful to be angry.  Paul talks about the Law being fulfillied in Galatians, basically saying that the Law was a teacher to prepare for Christ, and so now that Christ has come, it isn't needed anymore.  But many of the principles taught in the OT still apply, because they were principles given by God.  Why would God incarnate reject them?

Specifically about homosexuality:

1 Cor. 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Is that clear enough?  I believe that "effeminate" refers to boys who have relationships with men, and "abusers of themselves with mankind" are male homosexuals in general.  I could be wrong about the effeminate, but I think abusers of themselves with mankind is pretty clear.

The kicker is--fornicators.  Most Americans fornicate.  Paul puts it on the same level of sinfulness as homosexuality.  But most people don't accept this.

It also helps to explain why Justice Scalia, dissenting from the Lawrence v Texas opinion, ranted about the slippery slope leading to the acceptance/legalization of beastiality, incest, blah blah, and, get this, fornication and masturbation!  Now there's someone who takes his NT seriously.  It's rare that fornication is seen as a sin at all these days, let alone one on par with homosexuality.

OK, the reason why I posted this is not because I hold these views.  I don't care whether someone is Christian or not.  I just think it's important to take the Bible for what it is.  I also realize that many will disagree with the interpretation I just posted, but I feel that mine is at least plausible.  My point is that you can't say to people who think that homosexualty is sinful "Well, you just don't get Christianity."  It's in there.  Every Christian chooses what they want and don't want to take out of the Bible.  Even so-called fundamentalist Christians.  It's just another interpretation.

[Gimpson]

What did you guys do last night?

The girlfriend and I went over to her friend's place to watch the results.  I got everybody pumped up over horrible, horrible false exit poll results, and the mood just deteriorated over the course of the evening until I decided at about 11:00 that it was time to go to bed.  

On the bright side, we did manage to avoid electing some of the worst of the religious conservatives we could have in Kansas, and I can now buy Liquor on Sundays in my home town.  

I think I'm still in a state of shock over Bush winning so convincingly.  This is my first election ever supporting one of the Big Two candidates (reluctant as that support was), but I really thought that Kerry was going to take it.  

I'm still pissed about the low turnout among 18-24 year olds.  I heard 10% on the radio this morning, and that is just appalling.  I suppose that was to be expected historically, but I really thought that people were fired up about this.  

Ugh.  I'm disgusted with the electorate, and I think it would be in my best interests to stop paying attention to the news for a few months.  I doubt I'll be able to do it, though.

[Nabubrush]

Interpretation of the bible.

My question is always, what does gay marriage have to do with other people? How does it affect anyone other than the two people getting married?

[miles]

Interpretation of the bible.

My question is always, what does gay marriage have to do with other people? How does it affect anyone other than the two people getting married?

And that is a wonderful question to ask, especially in this secular nation.  One answer I hear often here in Utah is that same-sex parents are ill-equipped to raise children.  I don't buy it, but it is an attempt to avoid an answer like "well, the bible says so, fag."

[jough]

More young people were registering to vote, but republicans were using legal pressure to make sure that they couldn't vote once they got to the polls.

Also, there was some new legislation last year making it harder for college students to get absentee ballots from their home states.

Bear in mind that young people tend to vote on the left.

[Nabubrush]

Interpretation of the bible.

My question is always, what does gay marriage have to do with other people? How does it affect anyone other than the two people getting married?

And that is a wonderful question to ask, especially in this secular nation.  One answer I hear often here in Utah is that same-sex parents are ill-equipped to raise children.  I don't buy it, but it is an attempt to avoid an answer like "well, the bible says so, fag."

I think there are many people in this country who are just astonished that anyone who isn't a Christian would expect to have any rights at all. It seems as though many people think Christianity is the default official belief system for this country. Why should I care what someone else's God thinks about what I am doing in my own home? What difference does that make?

[JorgeFabregas]

The kicker is--fornicators.  Most Americans fornicate.  Paul puts it on the same level of sinfulness as homosexuality.  But most people don't accept this.

This is very true. Also true that Jesus puts lust on par with adultery. Many Christians are willing to turn a blind eye to philandering evangelists, womanizing politicians (and humiliatingly so) like Ahnold, and, perhaps most notably, the heavy use of prostitutes (even underage and trafficked ones) by our troops in foreign ports. Boys will be boys, eh? But boys doing boys, those are the real sinners.

One of the things that Jesus talked most about is money. Its stewardship is a moral issue. You could argue that he, as well as God in the OT, were biased towards the "orphan, the widow, and the alien" (the poor and disenfranchised), yet this administration is far, far from that.

[CortJstr]

I went to the Feminist Majority (feminist.org) to watch the results. At the time it seemed like all good news. Slate bucking the agreement and releasing exit polls as they came in and all the battleground states except Nevada were showing Kerry. Plus a Bush pollster (I forget his name) told alternet that Kerry would take it. I bailed to go home and watch the live Daily Show but my SO didn't come home until 3am and said it wasn't looking good any more.

I'd never seen the "effeminate" thing but I'm not sure how I feel about it. I'm giong to chalk that particular diction up to translations of translations. And the way I learned it was that Christians are not bound by the covenants that God made with Noah, or Abraham, or Moses. Instead, each time we partake of communion, we are binding ourselves to what Jesus taught. And while Jesus did make it a point to reiterate the Ten Commandments (and the "golden rule") h(H)e never once mentioned homosexuality. Although a deciple did which is where I'm guessing the Corinthians quote came from.

I also have a hard time taking a person seriously when they reffer to the judeo-christian deity as "Him." 2/3 of that entity is gender neutral. Therefore unless specifically talking about Jesus the correct term is It.

And I'm engaged. I don't want a bunch of gay people making a law that says I can't marry my SO because they don't like it. Therefore I will not attempt to treat homosexuals in the same way. I will treat them and their relationships as I would like them to treat me and mine.

But anyway. I still think that food, clothes, jobs, and health insurance for the poor is a larger moral issue than butt sex so Kerry was the the Christian choice. Not to mention the not invading other countries and killing people for no reason thing.

[CortJstr]

One of the things that Jesus talked most about is money. Its stewardship is a moral issue. You could argue that he, as well as God in the OT, were biased towards the "orphan, the widow, and the alien" (the poor and disenfranchised), yet this administration is far, far from that.

Exactly.

When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt:

In other words, respect other's beliefs and practices even if you don't agree with them! That doesn't mean that preaching or converting is wrong, just that one shouldn't blatantly try to block others from practicing their beliefs in the mean-time.