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[jough]

Hey kids,

Well, even though I didn't finish everything in time for the CSS Reboot deadline I launched the new site last night anyway.

I was wondering if any of you could try to log in, create an account (it's free and I collect less personal info there than this forum does here) and try to use it, make a list of poems, etc.?

I know most of you are pretty tech savvy, which my readership at Poetry X tends not to be (on average) so I expect you all to have a greater proficiency at using the site than others.  Having said that, I want to make sure that I'm just not finding it easy to use because I built it and know how it works from the inside-out.

I'll give anyone who gives me feedback a FREE upgrade to a premium account:

http://my.poetryx.com/upgrade/

You know you want it.

[arkabee]

registration process is pretty and easy, albeit bright inregards to the colors.

when it comes to registering for stuff, i'm usually at a "frustration" point anyways (i have to register to get in? grrr....), so i have a tendency not to read a lot of the instructions.

so, when presented with the "welcome" page after reg'ing the account and verifying the email, i'm at the "manage account screen".

looking at it for, such as, .5 seconds and trying to quickly figure out if i have to _do_ anything or if the defaults will be ok, i'm struck with this predominant thought:

wtf is a "list"?

- Edit your list
- My Lists
- You have not yet created a list.
- Manage your lists
- Create a new list.
- manage multiple lists
- Make and share lists,
- Edit your lists

that's 8 references to "list", but "list" is not defined.

obviously, i should read the faq, or i should have gone to the main poetry-x page and started a new account from there,
however,

at this point of my account creation, i have to _assume_ i know or think i know what a "list" is and what it is of.

so, maybe put a quick definition of a "list" on that page.


now, i lcik the "create a list" link, and it seems as though i can add poems to my list.

i'm still not sure what a list is, though.

i'm sure i desperately need coffee or sleep, however.

[AugustWest]

I'm going to echo Ark a little bit.  Registration was simple and easy.  The list process wasn't quite so clear.  I didn't have a problem creating a new list, but it wasn't very clear how to get poems onto my new list, at least from the list managment screen.  Also, it isn't really clear on the poem screen that click on save poem means "save to list" and not "save to your computer".

[jough]

registration process is pretty and easy, albeit bright inregards to the colors.

Yeah, I like my stuff bright, but I'm going to be making new "themes" for the site once I get the content/features done and sorted out.  So the default style for the site may change next month.  How's that for consistency?

when it comes to registering for stuff, i'm usually at a "frustration" point anyways (i have to register to get in? grrr....), so i have a tendency not to read a lot of the instructions.

Well, you don't *have* to log in to read anything on the site (yeah, I hate that too) but if you want to save personal information, favourite poems, leave comments, etc., well, then what other choice do you have other than a tracking cookie?  And people tend to hate cookies too.

Still, I'm waiting to see if any "bugmenot" accounts appear.

so, when presented with the "welcome" page after reg'ing the account and verifying the email, i'm at the "manage account screen".

How was the verification process for you?  Was the email short yet informative enough that you knew what to do without a lot of effort?

The only reason I'm using the extra step at all is because I wanted to make it easy for people to sign up for the newsletter during registration - and I don't like to have anything where someone can fill in an email address to get signed up for anything happen without verifying that the address belongs to that person, or at least that they have access to that account.

Otherwise people could use the site to spam their friends and loved ones. Or even their enemies.

looking at it for, such as, .5 seconds and trying to quickly figure out if i have to _do_ anything or if the defaults will be ok

Yeah, I'm not sure how to let people know what the state of their account settings is.  PHP BB doesn't do ANYTHING to let people know what they can do next and it seems to be pretty successful.

Maybe a box of current account settings with a little "change" button next to them if people want to change them?

wtf is a "list"?

Yeah, I've been having trouble with classifying the lists.

I was originally only assigning one list to each user, and so I didn't even have a list table, or names for the lists, etc.  Just a table of poems and users.

But then I thought it may be nice for people to have more than one list, and if they have more than one they'll want to name them.

Here's a question: should I auto-create the first list and call it "username's favorite poems" or something?  Then make it clear from the welcome page that that list exists and that they can edit its options right away if they wanted?

I figured it would be easier and clearer to just provide links to the "Create list" form which has more detailed info on it.

So since people can have more than one, referring to them as "favorite poem lists" or something like that wouldn't really work.  Poem Lists?  The only thing you can add to lists right now are poems, although that could change I suppose.

at this point of my account creation, i have to _assume_ i know or think i know what a "list" is and what it is of.

so, maybe put a quick definition of a "list" on that page.

Good idea.

Thanks for your detailed observations, ark.  I was spending so much time on the backend that the "home" pages for every major site section was pretty much an afterthought.  So this week I'm going to work to pretty them up, make the workflow easier to follow, simplify, simplify wherever possible.

This whole listmaking thing was a lot more complicated than I thought it would be.  I was responding to the seemingly simple request "have there be a way to save my favorite poems" and then I realised that there's really no model for this kind of feature.  I'm not saying I'm breaking any new ground here, because it *is* pretty simple, but I've never seen another content site offer ways to save links to pieces of that content from within the site.

I know people have browsers with "bookmark" or "favorites" capabilities, but that doesn't really allow them to share those links with others, add comments about them, see lists of other people who have similar items on their lists and see what else they have so you can read new stuff that people who like a lot of the same things that you like have added, etc.

I haven't even implemented half of the list features yet because there's not enough list data to make any of the above useful.

[jough]

I didn't have a problem creating a new list, but it wasn't very clear how to get poems onto my new list, at least from the list managment screen.

Yeah, I know.  I haven't figured out how to do this yet other than to add some kind of widget that let's people search and add poems to their lists from a single screen.  But I already HAVE that kind of navigation, for the regular poem pages, so it seemed stupid to replicate it.  But you're right, it's a problem.  Hmm...

 Also, it isn't really clear on the poem screen that click on save poem means "save to list" and not "save to your computer".

Ack.  You're right again. I think I'm going to make a "save" button that stands out a little more, maybe with words on two lines, like

Save to
Poem List

or whatever I end up calling the lists that means "one of my lists of poems from Poetry X".

[CortJstr]

This whole listmaking thing was a lot more complicated than I thought it would be. I was responding to the seemingly simple request "have there be a way to save my favorite poems" and then I realised that there's really no model for this kind of feature. I'm not saying I'm breaking any new ground here, because it *is* pretty simple, but I've never seen another content site offer ways to save links to pieces of that content from within the site.

You might want to take a look at how eMusic handles this. Every user gets a default (and undeletable) list called "Save for Later" but can add other lists as needed. When you save a track/album there's a drop down asking which list to save it to. For most people the only choices are "Save for Later" and "CREATE NEW LIST" If you choose to create a new list you just have to name it and (un)check Public.

Maybe "flag this monad" would be less confusing than saying save.

[jough]

Maybe "flag this monad" would be less confusing than saying save.

Ha ha.

Yes, adding things without having to reload the page would be nice, too.  I think this is the excuse I was looking for to use Ajax.

[CortJstr]

I honestly have no concept how hard this would be, but you could add a drop down next to "Save this poem →" with "Create a list" as the default entry for new/listless users. Of course that would also require making that option appear for people who haven't set a new list up yet, which I think is a good idea regardless.

[jough]

I am fairly certain that "Create a new list" is an option for people who don't have a list yet but are logged in.  I'll have to check and make sure.

And making more than one list is for now reserved for "premium members" which is another way of saying "people who are willing to pay $19 a year to turn off ads".  I figured that may not be compelling enough a reason to pay $19 a year, though (even though people donate funds in that amount without getting anything in return) so I added the ability to make multiple lists for those members.

I like the idea of a drop-down for multiple lists, though.  Right now if you have only one list it just adds the poem to that list, no questions (soon I hope to do this without a page reload using Ajax) and if they have more than one list it'll ask which list to add or remove the poem from (if it's already in a list of theirs).  I don't know how you can do add AND delete functions in one fell swoop using a drop-down select list, though.