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[AugustWest]

Well, I think very little of George W. Bush.  However, I don't think he controls the weather.

I do wonder why it has taken THREE DAYS to get the National Guard/Military involved and on site.

[pmcd9]

Well, I think very little of George W. Bush.  However, I don't think he controls the weather.

I don't know, he seems to think he's JC's right hand man.

~Paul

[AlohaDawg]

We are all JCs right hand men and women if we live as Christians.


I spent the night last night helping a complete stranger move since she got evicted with her 7 year old son with 24 hours notice. No one blamed the President. My friend's wife went off the deep end a couple of months ago and now he's devastated that they are getting divorced. He's a very liberal guy and he's going through hell but he has yet to blame the president.

I got such a wedgie today and I never once considered that the President might be to blame.

The National Guard is under the direct command and control of the Governor of the State. If it's taking too long to mobilize them (these are citizen soldiers who need time to get their family and work lives together before they can act on orders)(and there needs to be a plan for their deployment prior to sending them) you need to look at the STATE government. Only 15% of Louisianas guardsmen have been mobilized overseas, the rest are in Louisiana and presumably waiting for orders from their governor.

The President can Federalize and mobilize guard troops but that takes time, requires them to be Federally empowered and paid, and takes power away from the states, which no Republican would ordinarily do. It would be pointless to Federalize them and then leave them to work in the state they started out in. The President did sign orders for FEMA to start moving into the region on FRIDAY - before the storm hit - based on predictions of disaster which unfortunately were all too true.

Disaster has struck and the wheels are in motion. Those that want to stand around blaming or making political hay from human tragedy should do so quietly; others have work to do. As for the anarchy that's a horrible situation that displays the worst of human nature - it requires a strong hand and a strong stomach to quell it at this point. We should be grieving for humanity - but if you weren't already because of what's happening in the Sudan, what has happened un Uganda, Zimbabwe, and other places....well, maybe it seems worse because it's happening right here, but you know what...it's one world we live in. And we need to work in the world, not in our ideal little minds.

I suggest contribution, prayer, and helping your fellow man every chance you get no matter how trivial the need.

[Mantonio]

Well, I think very little of George W. Bush.  However, I don't think he controls the weather.

I don't know, he seems to think he's JC's right hand man.

~Paul

Regardless of what we all think of the president, as well as the various state and local officals down in Louisiana, I'm not entirely sure a political argument is what we should be getting into right now. Discuss whether Cathy would give a BJ to Marmaduke, donate to a charity of choice, even post a link to a Scandanavian Music video, just as long as we avoid a flame war. Tempers seem to be short.

[V-Adore]

Thanks, Mantonio. I've been staying away from this thread because my temper regarding this sort of thing is getting very short; at this point I don't really have a lot more to say, and I'm tired. If we have to be angry at each other politically, can it go to Private Message, please? Thank you.

[pmcd9]

Ok, I get the message, i'm sorry.  I'm frustrated is all, forgive me.

~Paul

[V-Adore]

Ok, I get the message, i'm sorry.  I'm frustrated is all, forgive me.

~Paul

No offense taken. I think we're all on edge here.

[wombat]

Fats Domino lives!  Woo-hoo!

I didn't know he was still alive before this.  But hey, at least there's some good news.

[side_show]

The people of LA may not have had a hurricane of this magnitude ever, or at least not in the course of their lifetimes, and thus are spared being thought of as fuck*ng idiots.

Sorry, but it's a fairly common view point that the people of LA are fuck*ng idiots too.  Earthquakes, mudslides, and smog don't really jive with the concept of suitable living conditions in a common sense world.

[jough]

Smells, I think you're thinking of L.A., or the city of Los Angeles, whereas I was talking about LA, or the state of Louisiana, which is where the hurricane which we're discussing hit.

Man, Canadians are so Canada-centric.  There's a whole world outside of CA, you know!

[Carlos del Vaca]

I have NO problem blaming the President.  Not for the hurricane itself, obviously, but for making a bad situation worse.  Politics is, by its very definition, the process of deciding how to allocate our resources.  And this administration chose to divert resources away from levee projects in Louisiana in favor of the war in Iraq.  And now the people in New Orleans are suffering for it.  

http://www.thismodernworld.com/weblog/mtarchives/week_2005_08_28.html#002409

Can I definitively say that everything in NO would be peachy if the money had been spent properly?  Of course not.  But if I could go back in time and undo it, would I?  You bet.  Yadda yadda yadda, Saddam Hussein was a very bad man, but fuck Iraq.  Seriously, fuck 'em.  Not like they were dying en masse.  Take care of our own people.

Anyway.  Over lunch I heard on the radio a reporter who was riding with a convoy of National Guard vehicles headed downtown with food and water and stuff, so hopefully that'll be there soon.

[AlohaDawg]

I'm totally against politicizing human tragedy; especially a natural disaster that was inevitable. Due to it's location and elevation, NO was pretty vulnerable regardless of what preparations could have been made.

I guess my biggest issue is the breakdown of society - I am not happy that the shoot to kill order is out on looters, but I'm also not happy that people are stealing things that they don't need to survive.

I hope someone taking diapers or water isn't shot, though.

No one wins here and I there's no point arguing about it.

[Carlos del Vaca]

I'm totally against politicizing human tragedy; especially a natural disaster that was inevitable. Due to it's location and elevation, NO was pretty vulnerable regardless of what preparations could have been made.

So the fact that decisions made by the Bush administration led DIRECTLY to this situation being far worse than it had to be should just be ignored?  Why is pointing this out "politicizing" it?  You assume the motive is "Make Bush look bad," not "Babies and old people dying in the streets is wholly unacceptable?"  Are we EVER allowed to be pissed at the administration for anything?  If not now, when?

War in Iraq + irresponsible tax cuts --> cuts to USACE levee projects --> New Orleans is a big fuck*ng bowl of water.
War in Iraq --> half the National Guard and all their equipment over there --> the Superdome is fuck*ng Lord of the Flies territory.
Appointing a goofball campaign donor who couldn't run the International Arabian hoss Assocition and had no emergency management experience to run FEMA --> FEMA can't get its shit together --> no fuck*ng water, food, or medicine for four days after the storm.
It's a straight line, A STRAIGHT LINE, from the actions of this administration to all this bungling.  They got re-elected on the platform of "Only we can protect the country," and then when the chips are down and all that wondrous Homeland Security infrastructure is called upon... nothing.  

THEY. FUCKED. UP.  And I find it strangely entertaining that while "Are you scared of accountability?" was a club used to bludgeon No Child Left Behind past objecting teachers' unions, when the shoe is on the other foot, no one in this administration wants to be held accountable for anything.

Sorry, Dawg, but I ain't hearin' that.  "Please don't politicize this" comes across as "Please don't say anything critical of Republicans, because it might force us to acknowledge their fuck-ups."  It's a cop-out.

[robot_roll_call]

I don't really consider myself capable of handing myself in a debate on this board, but I am going to try my hardest to express my feelings about this post. I respect you (and everyone here), carlos, but I couldn't agree less with you.

So the fact that decisions made by the Bush administration led DIRECTLY to this situation being far worse than it had to be should just be ignored

This didn't start with the Bush administration. According to an article I read in today's paper, one of the engineers who works on the levees said that efforts to improve them would have had to begun 20 to 25 years ago to prepare for something like Katrina. He also said funding has been steady during the Iraq war. I am going to find this article just it doesn't look like I'm talking out of my ass here. The point is, the problems with New Orleans go back years and years before the Bush Administration.

On top of that, New Orleans was pretty fucked, levees or no. Just because of geography, elevation, being built on a swamp, it's just a bad place to be hit with a hurricane. It's been covered well in this thread already.

Are we EVER allowed to be pissed at the administration for anything? If not now, when?

Yeah, because I NEVER hear anyone blame the Bush Administration for anything.

There are a lot of very valid things to blame him for, no question about that. But this whole Katrina situation is bigger than everyone. It is an absolute worst-case scenario that no amount of planning and preparation could have braced us for.

All this just makes me angry, because it's petty partisanship in a time when we all need to pull together. Pointing fingers isn't going to fix anything.

[Mantonio]

I, for one, do not think Cathy would ever give Marmaduke a BJ. Garfield on the other hand....