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Author Topic: The In-N-Out 20x20  (Read 20142 times)

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AugustWest

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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2005, 09:52:44 pm »

But content is not the only thing that has meaning.  As Marshall McLuhan so famously said, "The medium is the message."

We are able to glean some information about In-N-Out Burger by knowing the simple fact that they print citations to Bible verses on their packaging, whether or not we are familiar with the verse cited.  

I like Krispy-Kremes.  Of course, they've been around here forever so they aren't the big novelty that they seem to be in less civilized climes.  They're good doughnuts and all, but I can't imagine standing in line for an extended period of time for them.
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Ben-San

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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2005, 10:41:49 pm »

My issue with Krispy Kremes is that they are very, very sugary. They start from nearly the maximum amount of sugariness I can withstand in a pastry and use that as their baseline from which to advance into new and sugary dimensions. The greasiness doesn't bother me too much on its own, but is not really bonus points on the sugariness.

The glazed crullers are decent, though. Much less thickly glazed than the donuts and fairly crispy, as I recall.

Edit: posting on an Internet message board about Krispy Kremes was enough to make my body begin a system of withdrawal to protect itself from being overloaded by sugar.
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AlohaDawg

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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2005, 11:39:43 pm »

Quote from: "AugustWest"
But content is not the only thing that has meaning.  As Marshall McLuhan so famously said, "The medium is the message."


Interesting. My opinion:

If I printed "Acts 29:1-5" on a t-shirt and wore it to your house, would that have meaning? What would it mean to you? Ponder that before you read on.

If the medium is the message, then the paper bag is the message, not the citation.

Acts 29:1-5 would appear to be no different than any other citation of a Bible verse with the notable exception that the book of Acts has only 28 chapters. So, unlike John 3:16, an extremely well known citation and probably slightly less well known verse, Acts 29:1-5 as a citation is meaningless but only so for someone who knows enough about the Bible to realize it. Otherwise as a name of a bible book wth some numbers afterward, it carries the exact same 'meaning' which is obviously not theological or scriptural since there is no scripture attached to it. At best, it's meaning (and most citations on their own presented to the general public) is contextual at best. And probably fairly weakly so.

Believers in God and the redemptive power of the death and resurrection of Christ, may tell you that if one of those citations leads one curious person to look further into their beliefs, or to talk about religion with a clergyman, or leads a person back to a life in faith that they left, then it's a good thing and certainly it doesn't hurt anyone/everyone else.
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pmcd9

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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2005, 12:08:07 am »

Quote from: "side_show"
However, when it comes to cynical little me, unlike the In-n-Out, which seems to be a family business gone big-ish, there are big businesses that try to inject the personal into the their product, just to insidiously convince you that they do care.  The Wal-Mart greeter?  Bah!  The more spin there is, the more cynical I become to the whole process of consuming, the more I want to go to the corner store, eat at the family run restaurant, etc., etc., etc.  I'm just so bloodly sick of being played.

The Wal-Mart greeter, I second that Bah!  Let's call it what it really is, the check to see you're not stealing person.  I've come dangerously close to being arrested twice at Walmart because I refuse to stop for them when they ask to see my receipt even when I set off the alarm.  One time two "associates" hounded me all the way to the car, one was on the radio calling for security.  I guess they could give me a hassle, but what are they gonna do really, arrest me for not showing my receipt while walking out of the store with fully paid for merchandise?

Fuck 'em, fuck 'em in the ass.  Fuck In and Out too, there are still thousands of family owned burger joints where you can get a burger actually made by a member of the family.   And they beat the ever lovin' shit out of In and Out.  I can say that without reservation having never eaten an In and Out.

See what I mean?

Praise Jesus.

~Paul
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pmcd9

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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2005, 12:09:49 am »

Quote from: "misterqueue"
Quote from: "CortJstr"
We can't order from Papa John's because they give money to anti-choice groups.


Dammit CortJstr.. you had to take my pizza didn't you?!

sigh.. all the more reason to cook my own I s'pose.




why do I suddenly feel like Pat?

Here's a better reason to not eat Papa John's, their pizza sucks.

~Paul
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pmcd9

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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2005, 12:17:06 am »

Quote from: "Ben-San"
I have never had In-N-Out, but I have to say that I find Krispy Kremes pretty unpalatable. I don't get all the waxing rhapsodic over them.

That's because those people are waxing rhapsodic about a memory.  Once upon a time Krispy Kreme was all about the freshness.  Any donut eaten mere seconds after it comes out of the fat is gonna taste good.  There all basically the same, It's just fried dough for christ sake, but now days Krispy Kreme has become just like all the rest and it's likely the donuts you ate were made hours in advance and just sat there congealing waiting for you to purchase them.

Krispy Kreme is in deep financial trouble now.  Sales have dropped because people have caught on to this fact.

~Paul
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pmcd9

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« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2005, 12:21:12 am »

Quote from: "Bozack"
Fatburger

That's a good lookin' burger pictured on the website.  I wonder if the one's made by the drones are as good as the one in the picture suggest it could be?

~Paul
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Skillator

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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2005, 12:52:25 am »

I have never eaten a Fatburger and out of principle I refuse to.

Mere months ago the big fatty moved into my hood (the first in Canada), mere feet away from my favorite family owned burger joint Vera's:
http://www.verasburgershack.com
Vera's is the best burger I have ever tasted. They can truly do no wrong. If you come to Vancouver, eat a damn Vera burger.
Now our city is pretty big and there are plenty of neighborhoods that you could put your enormous burger chain without obviously trying to snuff out the local competition but no. They did it. I just hope I'm not the only person who lives around here who won't stand for that shit.
Plenty of companies try to do this and I guess when it comes to bottom line it makes sense.
I might have been a happy patron of Fatburger, instead, I'm a grouchy bastard on the subject.
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AugustWest

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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2005, 01:23:46 am »

Quote from: "AlohaDawg"
Quote from: "AugustWest"
But content is not the only thing that has meaning.  As Marshall McLuhan so famously said, "The medium is the message."


Interesting. My opinion:

If I printed Acts 29:1-5 on a t-shirt and wore it to your house, would that have meaning? What would it mean to you? Ponder that before you read on.


It would.  My point is that the shirt has meaning without regard to the text it refers to.  What meaning could I gather if I saw you wearing such a shirt?  I would likely infer that you were a Christian, that you were the type of person who wears his beliefs on his sleeve (so to speak) and that the verse in question has special significance to you.  If I was enough of a scriptural scholar to recognize the oddity of the citation it would tell me even more about you.  So while I have not learned anything about Acts 29:1-5, I have learned some important facts.

Quote

If the medium is the message, then the paper bag is the message, not the citation.


So what does the paper bag tell me?

It tells me that In-N-Out is not a publicly owned company, and is likely owned by a single person or small group of like-minded people.

It tells me that the owners are Christian.

It tells me that they believe it is appropriate for them to disseminate their religious beliefs in this manner.

It tells me that they believe that they believe their religion is not cheapened or offended by placing scriptural references on disposable food containers.

The small size and semi-hidden location of the citation indicates they may be reluctant to include a more obvious scriptural reference, which could indicate something about the relative importance of their religious and business values.

The form of the citation raises questions about the intended audience.  Are these bible verses directed at believers who already own and read Bibles?  As such are these scriptural citations a sort of marketing tool -- A secret sign saying, "Buy a Burger from a Christian!" Or are they directed an non-believers as an introduction to the faith?  If the latter, how would such a person recognize the cryptic letters and numbers as referring to a Bible verse?

Please understand, I'm not trying to criticize the In-N-Out people in any way.  The practice doesn't bother me in the least.  I'm not talking about religion here -- this is about communication theory.  

I'm just saying that you can learn a lot about the sender from how the message is sent without even looking at the "content".



Quote
Believers in God and the redemptive power of the death and resurrection of Christ, may tell you that if one of those citations leads one curious person to look further into their beliefs, or to talk about religion with a clergyman, or leads a person back to a life in faith that they left, then it's a good thing and certainly it doesn't hurt anyone/everyone else.


Can we then conclude, based upon In-N-Out's actions, that they (the owners) hold this belief?   Isn't that meaning we can derive that is totally separate from the content of the cited Bible verse?
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Bozack

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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2005, 03:05:31 am »

The Krispy Kreme closest to me, on 72nd street, closed over the summer. Some days, I cry.
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pmcd9

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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2005, 03:36:36 am »

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side_show

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« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2005, 05:40:44 am »

Quote from: "pmcd9"
Quote from: "side_show"
However, when it comes to cynical little me, unlike the In-n-Out, which seems to be a family business gone big-ish, there are big businesses that try to inject the personal into the their product, just to insidiously convince you that they do care.  The Wal-Mart greeter?  Bah!  The more spin there is, the more cynical I become to the whole process of consuming, the more I want to go to the corner store, eat at the family run restaurant, etc., etc., etc.  I'm just so bloodly sick of being played.

The Wal-Mart greeter, I second that Bah!  Let's call it what it really is, the check to see you're not stealing person.  I've come dangerously close to being arrested twice at Walmart because I refuse to stop for them when they ask to see my receipt even when I set off the alarm.  One time two "associates" hounded me all the way to the car, one was on the radio calling for security.  I guess they could give me a hassle, but what are they gonna do really, arrest me for not showing my receipt while walking out of the store with fully paid for merchandise?

Fuck 'em, fuck 'em in the ass.  Fuck In and Out too, there are still thousands of family owned burger joints where you can get a burger actually made by a member of the family.   And they beat the ever lovin' shit out of In and Out.  I can say that without reservation having never eaten an In and Out.

See what I mean?

Praise Jesus.

~Paul


Ah, see I have a long, deep understanding of the depths of the Wal-Mart greeter.  When the first ever Wal-Mart came to Winnipeg, my mother was hired as a greeter.  This was a time when no one in my corner of the world knew what a greeter was - it was a little hard to explain to people.  Even hard to explain to many is that my mother, who is - and always has been - mentally ill, could not handle the job of being a greeter.  Later I worked at Wal-Mart for three years and watched first hand as the greeters singled out teenagers and people who looked a little unusual for the undercover store cops to follow around, while the actual shoplifters were basically ignored.

I remember a really low point a couple years ago where my SO and I both found ourselves unemployed at the same time, before Christmas I think, and we went to apply at a Home Depot job fair for holiday help, as we were very desperate.  As we entered the store, I commented on how, like at Wal-Mart, the greeters at the Home Depot had clearly been trained to not greet or otherwise acknowledge young people (i.e. us a few years ago in our early 20's, who looked like we were in our late teens) - we were ungreeted, and although we were looked at by the greeter, there was no smile or sign that we were infact welcome to enter.  We went into the job fair, we never set foot beyound the little area that had been set up for the application and interview process - didn't enter the retail space at any time.  After an initial application and screening interview, were both asked to stay for real interviews, they said it would be about 15 minutes and that we had to stay in the little waiting area, not wander the store, we obliged and actually waited about 2 1/2 hours sitting in the little area, and were finally called in by different interviewers at the same time.  We both had extremely positive interviews.  I was told that I would be hired as a seasonal temp base on my several years of experience with Wal-mart and my high level of job interview skills.  I was fine with that, and happy to accept the offer.  I was told I would be called for training.  My SO can drive a Fork Lift, so the shipping and recieving department manager told him that he too would definitly be hired as a temp, and would be called for training.  My SO was very enthusiastic about this because it's the exact area of work he wanted to get into - they even told him they could get him certified as a forklift operator, which he was very happy about.  

As we walked out of the interview area toward the exit, both excited that we were being offered jobs - that our terrifying stint of unemployment had reached an end - I notices a middle aged woman hanging near the door who looked very nervous.  I remember wondering why her eyes were darting around, kind of thinking something was wrong, but not having any time to really analyse what it was.  We passed through the alarm panel thing-y's in silence.  The alarm sounded from behind us as she then darted infront of us, running out the door full tilt.   We both realized we were witnessing a shoplifter, and as we heard footfall behind us, we imagined that it was security or one of those undercover shoppers, going to make chase after her.  But no.  it was three staff people insisting that we stop.  I remember saying something like:  "that woman just set off the alarm and now she's running across the parking lot!" at about the same time as we were being asked about the content of our pockets, if we had purchased anything, etc.  My SO said of the woman who dashed and was now in a car and driving away -something like "she's getting away." Which was also ignored, and the questions about what was in our pockets, if we had purchased anything were being repeated.  I explained that we hadn't been in the store itseld but had just been interviewed for jobs.  We passed through the metal detectors again, and as with the first time we passed through, we did not set off the alarm.  I said something like - "I told you, it was that woman who ran out ahead of us!" to which one of the employees said "Yeah, right." and another rolled here eyes.

Worse than the staff's refusal to listen to the fact we had just seen a woman bolt from the store and set off the metal detectors, was what came next.  We were never called for the jobs we were offered.  I can only assume that the staff that had so rudely singled us out and ignored the far more obviouse real thief running like a bat out of hell for her car, also then told the people who had interviewed us that we had "gotten away with shoplifting," and that they in turn, had therefore not hired us.  For me, it didn't matter since I knew I would have only worked at a place like that for a couple of weeks until I found something better, but for the SO it was more of a disapointment.  He was so excited about the idea of working in a big warehouse and using a forklift again.  

Needless to say, we never shop at Home Depot anymore.
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CortJstr

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« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2005, 02:23:32 pm »

If my time with Peacefire has taught me nothing else it's that teenagers, or people who look like teenagers, have no rights and are always wrong.
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Bobby Isosceles

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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2005, 02:28:49 pm »

Quote from: "CortJstr"
If my time with Peacefire has taught me nothing else it's that teenagers, or people who look like teenagers, have no rights and are always wrong.


Man, people stay dumb as they get older too. A man is just a boy with tenure.
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Lister

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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2005, 02:30:18 pm »

Having grown up in the south, back when there were relatively few Krispy Kremes, I can say that they're my doughnut benchmark.  I far prefer their yeast batter to Dunkin' Donuts' cake batter, and the sugar content, well, just isn't a mark against them in my book.

It was always a production to pile the family in the car and drive all the way to the (somewhat seedy) part of town to get the doughnuts, and so they came to be a rare treat.  I'm guessing that's why I never "grew out" of liking them, even though I rarely bother to buy any doughnuts any more.

But thinking about that and other chain food that I really have a hankering for, it's not that the actual food is that much better on some absolute scale.  It's unique and out of the ordinary.

As a West Coast transplant, I don't really get the In-n-Out Burger "thing," but they do have a tasty product.  I agree that they aren't the best burgers ever, but I prefer them to any other large chain's fare.*  I would take Milo's in a head to head fast food burger fight.  Not that any of you know Milo's.  Half the appeal of a Milo's burger is in the fries and sauce anyway.  And the sweet tea.  Mmmmm.  Milo's.

Sorry, I drifted off, there.  Sometimes it feels like I miss the food from home more than, er, home.  Maybe that's what makes people evangelize Krispy Kreme, or whatever local-chain-made-good.  Places like this feel like a secret, one which you can let your friends in on, and that's always a good feeling.  It's one of the few aspects of reigonal identity left.  I know that I can take someone from almost anywhere outside of Alabama to a Milo's, or a Guthrie's, and they won't have had something like it before.

Krispy Kreme used to be that way.  Chick-Fil-A was like that, too.  They might not be the best examples of their product, but they taste different, and you've either had one or you haven't.

Okay, I'm up way too late (early) and waxing way too philosophical about food.  I'm apparently a bit homesick for some of it. :)

*I, personally, make my favorite burgers ever, which I guess makes sense.  But it does kill my appetite for fast-food burgers.
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