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[theinevitable]

I really enjoy more "artsy" comics. For instance: Jimmy Corrigan, "Hey, Wait!", and Maus (and Maus II). I am not really sure how to find more comics along a similar vein (other than just going to the local comicbook-store, which is a little too far away to be convenient). Do any of you have any suggestions? Basically I never really got into the more "classic" comics, so I'm trying to start appreciating comics by starting on the more socially acceptable types. I mean, I'm not above trying anything, but as someone who didn't read comics (other than calvin and hobbes, foxtrot, and other newspaper type comics) growing up, its hard for me to start out with the more "super-hero"-ey stuff.

Basically: if you'd never read comic books, what would you start on? I almost picked up this spiderman book the other day... it was, I think, the first few issues of spider man in book form. It seemed pretty cool, but, I don't know. I'd have to get into it, I suppose.

[Ben-San]

The answer as always really comes down to "what do you want to be reading?" I am embarrassingly underinformed about Artsy comics, but in terms of more 'comic-booky' comics..

Sandman has long been popular with people who aren't interested in superheroes. Alan Moore's run on Saga Of The Swamp Thing has a little more involvement from superheroic comics characters, but many of them were little-used for years before Moore revived/restored them for his own use, and the cosmological framework Moore laid out is still the main basis of DC's occult stuff. Both of these titles are occult horror/dark fantasy set loosely within the framework of an existing superheroic universe.

DC has a "Greatest Stories Ever Told" line (Greatest Flash Stories Ever Told, Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told, etc.) which may be of interest starting into superheroes. They tend to give a good overview of the focal character even if some of the stories selected are not in fact the greatest ever told. Marvel takes a different approach with its "Essentials" line, which is basically big clumps of comics about a particular character starting from his beginning and plowing straight forward, reprinted in black and white so you get a huge wad for cheap.

Maybe that'll help or maybe not.

[Doc]

I'm not a comic book person so I tend to go for the self contained stuff or trade paperbacks, I started out reading Sandman because I liked Gaiman's novels and that in turn led me to Alan Moore (V for Vendetta is quite cool). If you're like me and like to get the whole story in one go trades are probably best, the few Hellblazers I have read seem to be a good example of a contained story that doesn't require a lot of back knowledge.
While we are on the subject has anyone read for Queen and Country? I've seen it mentioned and it sounds like reasonably cool comic that I might want to check out. Any thoughtss?

[theinevitable]

wow, I just did something stupid to the long response I had typed here by hitting one of the wierd formatting buttons.

basically, suggest comic(book)s for me. I am a person who has not read many comics. I did not mean to limit you to "art" type comics... I mostly meant that I had enjoyed a few in the past.

[side_show]

Dear Mr.theinevitable - Oh, I know ever so much about this particular area of interst, due to my many years working in a comic book shop.

1) You can't be a pretentious comic autour without having read "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud.  It's a comic book that is a textbook about comic books.  It's brilliant.  Read it.  Also, if you liked Maus, I'm pretty sure that McCloud references it in the book.  Also, if you liked Maus, the creator Art Spiegelman's made lots of other books that are worth checking out.  I remember one biographical book he did about 5 years ago that I really liked.

When it comes to actual comic books, I most deeply appreciate "world building" - where there are unique parameters of what can, or can not happen in the world of the comic.  These are my two favorites for that:

2) If you like Achewood, you will probably like Sock Monkey by Tony Millionaire.  His comic books are about an alive stuffed Sock Monkey, a stuffed toy Crow, a family of Dolls and their interactions with small creatures within a Victorian-style Mansion.  The children who own these toys are sometimes involved.  Check out Millionaire's site: www.maakies.com.  This is a front for his regularly posted mini-strips, the Maakies, which are also available in book form, but started out at intricate mini's at the bottom of the full-length Sock Monkey strips.  The site gives you info on all the full length Sock Monkey books and links to where you can buy them.

3) James Kochalka: is the god of underground comics.  He makes a daily diary strip about his life: www.americanelf.com which  you can read online, but really the diary strips have there deepest impact when read in collection, and the site links to places to purchase.  Don't let the simplicity of reading a one shot of his diary fool you, when you read the strips together in book form you'll see the subtle way he celebrates the beauty, mystery and intricacy of day to day life.

Other than that, if you like long-form books, I really liked:

4) Chester Brown's Louis Riel - it's near and dear to me because it's about my ancestral history, but I do recommend it, and though it came out in smaller individual books I'd recommend the full-length hard cover, as the story is pretty easy to tear through.

Or if you prefer one off thingies, I love:

5) Evan Dorkin - you can read any of his stuff and it is just wonderful.  Milk and Cheese?  Check.  Dork?  Check.  There's a great collection of Dork that is really worth picking up. If you like sarcastic literary references and Devil hand puppets, this is for you.  giraffeer Price Theatre - where the giraffeer Price weebles enact well know books like Generation X and Of Mice and Men, etc. is hilarious.

[slink]

If you're into the artier stuff, take a look at 100 Bullets. It's about an untracable gun/bullets that find their way to various people.
I've been enjoying it.

But to start, try Powers. It's just so good.

This was all comic books, as I don't read many online ones but do have a fair stack of unread comics still...

[robot_roll_call]

Isn't Powers the one with a whole issue of nothing but monkeys fuck*ng?

[V-Adore]

Just to be obvious: if you really want to bridge the gap between "art" comics and comic books, Alan Moore's Watchmen is probably a must. It was the comic that pretty much made the deconstructionist-superheroes trend, and it's unquestionably the best such product to date. In a lot of ways it shows its age (there's a lot of that mid-to-late-'80s end-of-the-cold-war vibe about its plot), and it might not be the best entrance point if you really know nothing about superhero comics, but if you have any background it's superb.

[slink]

Isn't Powers the one with a whole issue of nothing but monkeys fuck*ng?

Can't say I've gotten to that one, certainly...

[Bozack]

Did someone say pretention? And comics?
First off, yes, to everything everyone has already said (except...monkeys fuck*ng?)- yes, yes and double yes. You might also want to check out Jeffrey Brown (although I would suggest only getting one of his "girlfriend" books- he's done three different, small books that consist of comics that show different stages in three different relationships. They're each good, but reading more than one kind of makes you want to kick his ass). Seth (just Seth) is an amazing artist and a great storyteller, to boot- I saw him and Adrian Tomine read recently (Tomine's pretty good, but some of his stuff makes me want to kick his ass, just like Brown). Jason Little does Beekeeper Cartoon Amusements; he hasn't updated that comic in a long time, but "Shutterbug Follies" is out and good. Platinum Grit is online, free and fun, although it's much more "classic" comic book than web-comic. Oh, and I would suggest getting the "Comic" McSweeney's- lotsa good stuff in there, and you can go from there on a lot of those people.
In terms of more "mainstream" comics- I've been reading a lot of "Fables" lately, a Great Lakes Avengers trade just came out, and here comes just a big ol' list of cool things I like- "Y: The Last Man," "Desolation Jones," "The Authority," "Ex Machina," "Invincible," 'Top 10, "B.P.R.D."...I've just been trying to mention some cool stuff that you can get in trades. In the normal superhero universe, there's been some interesting stuff happening in Daredevil as of late...The Pulse is good, basically anything by Brian Michael Bendis- the New Avengers is tasty...
Yeah, I'm out for now. Also, a total dork.

[theinevitable]

hm, so.
I went on a "cool part of town" shopping trip today. I bought a book called "What is a Jew? Understanding Judaism", and "Superman: Red Son".

We tried to get some Kochalka comics... and the guy asked us if we were over 18. And we thought he was joking.

I can get in to R rated movies. I can buy M rated games.
But I can't buy a comic book that has nudity in it.

He was really apologetic about it, though...

[robot_roll_call]

via amazon.com

This is the infamous "Monkey Butt Sex" storyline, opening with an entire chapter of proto-human sex and violence. If Monkey Butt Sex is the type of thing that might bother you, you may want to spend your money elsewhere.

This opening is either an homage to Kubrick and Clarke's 2001, a parody of 2001 or just plain derivative.

The Monkey Butt Sex does serve the story, which tracks the first superhumans to the present, so it's not actually gratuitous, although it is probably more graphic than needed. But the story is itself somewhat lacking -- slow paced, poor dialog, and repetitive. Characterization is flat. It is not one of the high points of the series.

The art is great, as you would expect from Oeming -- stylized, with lots of hard black lines. Monkey Butt Sex never looked so good.

I knew I wasn't making it up! I was just flipping through my friend's comics one day and BAM! 30 pages of monkey sex.

[Ben-San]

A bunch of pretty good recommendations on which I am about to comment

Those are all good comics, but a few of them I wouldn't necessarily recommend to somebody just starting on comics. The Pulse and Great Lakes Avengers are both pretty reliant as far as I've seen on a certain level of working knowledge about Marvel. As for Top Ten.. I am actually too far inside my comics immersion to be able to recognize whether or not it would work as a great superhero police-procedural for somebody who isn't already immersed in the superhero zeitgeist. I suspect so, but I am inside the giraffebowl and cannot see its shape.

[theinevitable]

oh my -god- Red Son was awesome.
so much

[slink]

"Y: The Last Man,"

Also rules, though I've only managed to track down the first TPB so far.
I also have to say, despite the fact I never got into Babylon 5 (seemed a mite silly), Rising Stars is a fantastic comic (again from the first TPB which I can get).