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[wombat]

Sweet of you Miles, but academia has plenty like me, actually.  It's just that we only talk to each other.

And while normally I do like a good rational explanation, dang, now I wish that my computer really did run on tiny gnomes extracted from the earth's core.

But that really is what non-scientists don't understand about scientists, isn't it.  They don't understand the absolute awesomeness of  the feeling that, holy shit, that makes sense!

[pmcd9]

Why can't a beautiful explanation be a source of joy?

This is a lovely way to put it. A truly good explanation is beautiful; the human mind, for example, is a structure that gives me much more joy now that I understand it, even the paltry bit I can understand. Explanations are beautiful, and the search for explanations is beautiful.

(The other example that comes to mind is technology. I rather prefer actually understanding how my computer works to, say, declaring that my computer is unknowable or just assuming my computer runs on tiny gnomes extracted from the Earth's core; that, and it allows me secondary benefits like, say, being able to fix my computer when something goes wrong.)

Wow, you went deep there V.  And here I thought Wombat was just doing a mash up of the assorted topics in this thread.

~Paul

[wombat]

We really do need to give this one a TOUMBIE for Wandering.

[AlohaDawg]

Especially since I didn't say a beautiful explanation can't be a source of joy - what I meant was that there are people who lose their sense of wonder by constantly requiring explanations of everything in their environment.  I suspect V's joy in understanding the working is not only the explanation itself but the fact that she gets it and that she put in a lot of effort to get it. Sometimes that joy and wonder is a reward, too. That's one way it becomes a 'beautiful' explanation.

The saddest people are the ones who want all the answers but aren't interested in actually learning or seeing the elegance in, say, the design of cells or even the simple double helix of DNA.

That the brain and the rest of our bodies work at all is pretty miraculous when you think about it.


<><>

Miles seems to have the idea that someone somewhere  said the world doesn't need academics. I should point out that I said the exact opposite. What the world doesn't need is more overwrought and self-righteous acadcemics.

[miles]

Oh, I said that, Dawg.  Or, I implied it.  Sorry for the confusion.

[swinehund]

But that really is what non-scientists don't understand about scientists, isn't it.  They don't understand the absolute awesomeness of  the feeling that, holy shit, that makes sense!

Exactly, and it brings a lot of happiness too, to certain people.
Depression is often brought about by feeling a lack of control, and greater understanding of the processes that one is subject to can restore that. Lots of events become less bewildering and frightening.
Personally, I found the notion that there was a creator and purpose behind everything more depressing, because it meant that 1) I was totally not getting what this purpose was, and therefore probably screwing up pretty badly 2) all the insults the world subjected me to were personal. I greatly prefer a world in which those things aren't true.

I don't think that people can escape being subject to wonder anymore than they can avoid craving fatty foods, but the things that do it for them are going to be different and are likely to change. I'm no longer enthralled by playing with the faucet like I was when I was 3, either (at least not most days).

[theinevitable]

goddamn.

if I don't get to tell people they're saying things wrong, what do I have?

MY LIFE IS MEANINGLESS IN A WORLD OF RELATIVE GRAMMAR/MORALITY!

I can only survive as long as I can judge others.

(I'm simultaneously being facetious and serious. is there a word for this)

[miles]

Facerious?  Seritious?

[misterqueue]

Facerious?  Seritious?

Do you need a bucket or something for all that?

[AugustWest]

What the world doesn't need is more overwrought and self-righteous acadcemics people.

Fixed that for you.

[AlohaDawg]

Fixed that for you.

You mean you got rid of ALL of them?

What am I still doing here?

[AugustWest]

You mean you got rid of ALL of them?

What am I still doing here?

Fixed the sentence, not the problem.

[AlohaDawg]

What the hell good are you then?

Edit: Never let it be said our discussions aren't timely

If/when this link dies, let me know. Thanks.

[AugustWest]

Quite timely.

However the article said:

"As such, it will be a blow to proponents of intelligent design, who claim that the many gaps in the fossil record show evidence of some higher power."

Nope, the proponents of intelligent design won't believe it, because they don't want to.

[AlohaDawg]

I think Intelligent Design belief is kind of a continuum. I know that there are plenty of scientists, including paleontologists and biologists and cosmologists and chemists who are excellent scientists and also faithful Christians. I think that the back of the broad brush with which one paints 'narrowminded' Christians should necessarily also color 'narrowminded' rationalists.

I'm not sneering at either side; I think perhaps the gift of human intellect and the need to relentlessly seek knowledge may be so that we eventually find God out (or in) there.