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[FlipConstantine]

sorry dude, trying to make a joke, i'm not very good at it.

[Drygioni]

My science teacher told us that most of the very cleverest scientists leading the field in astrophysics and the study of the Universe are actually theologians; apparently, after seeing how small the chances are for, say, the properties of a proton to be EXACTLY right for everything in the Universe to exist, they believe there must be some divine intervention.

I'll admit I'm naive and ask you clever people: Is he bullshitting? I have to admit that I am biased against the idea of a creator/God; I would like to think he's merely trying to reintroduce religion into public schools (fat chance), but I have less than half the lifetime some of you guys do. Help me out, you know your stuff.

[FlipConstantine]

My science teacher told us that most of the very cleverest scientists leading the field in astrophysics and the study of the Universe are actually theologians; apparently, after seeing how small the chances are for, say, the properties of a proton to be EXACTLY right for everything in the Universe to exist, they believe there must be some divine intervention.

I'll admit I'm naive and ask you clever people: Is he bullshitting? I have to admit that I am biased against the idea of a creator/God; I would like to think he's merely trying to reintroduce religion into public schools (fat chance), but I have less than half the lifetime some of you guys do. Help me out, you know your stuff.

I can't speak for the individual beliefs of Physicists/Cosmologists et al., or (much) to the nature of the physics involved, but that one's new to me.  The way I understand it, Cosmology was, for a long time, pretty much stymied on the question of how our current, fairly low entropy, universe could exist.  The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that entropy should increase no matter if you're looking forward or backward in time, it increases from the current point on (don't ask, that's just what i've been told).  The reigning theory nowadays in cosmology is that there was something called a Higgs field that somehow caused the Universe's earliest days to be extremely low entropy.  There's a lot of debate over these things still, and there's new theories cropping up every day, but, I'm pretty sure your teacher is bullshitting you if he's saying that most scientists think the existence of a god is somehow neccesary for the current universe to exist, or that there is some sort of scientific consensus on the matter.  That's not to say science has ruled out the possibility for a god to exist, just that it doesn't really have much to say about the issue one way or the other.

[AlohaDawg]

There is a small, vocal movement of scientists from many disciplines who are proponents of Intelligent Design:

Center for Science and Culture

Dissent from Darwinism

It's good to look at both sides of this argument. Obviously, there are some highly placed and respected scientists on both sides, and as you might expect, the majority are either on the side of Darwiin and rational realism or don't make their opinion public.

Of the ones who don't make their beliefs public, who knows how many are on each side...

[theinevitable]

alohadawg-- that's where my problem is. If I just read about it, some part of me assumes "this is the will of god". (I was trying to do the g-d thing, but, that is awkward. I've never really understood it.)
but then, when I stopped and thought about it, I realized that I didn't really believe that. I don't know. I think if I keep reading about it, maybe I'll eventually come to a conclusion about it. For the meanwhile, I really think that a lot of the moral foundations in judaism are the same as the ones I already had. This just gives them a form.

[robot_god]

My science teacher told us that most of the very cleverest scientists leading the field in astrophysics and the study of the Universe are actually theologians; apparently, after seeing how small the chances are for, say, the properties of a proton to be EXACTLY right for everything in the Universe to exist, they believe there must be some divine intervention.

I'll admit I'm naive and ask you clever people: Is he bullshitting? I have to admit that I am biased against the idea of a creator/God; I would like to think he's merely trying to reintroduce religion into public schools (fat chance), but I have less than half the lifetime some of you guys do. Help me out, you know your stuff.

In agreement with sideshow, I find it difficult to get involved in this discussion, nowadays.  But I would be doing a disservice to myself and what I believe if I did not share what I think on the subject.

The universe, basically, is god.  God is the only thing that cannot exist, that is the concepts of "nothing" and "infinity."  The universe is the best possible expression of the ideas of nothing/infinity, which results in three dimensional space.  Three dimensions is the best representation of infinity for this reason:  "Nothing" = 1;   1/3 = .33333333333333repeattoinfinity;  It is impossible to divide "nothing" by three, the result is an infinte number.

This is not to say that god is limited to existing as the universe.  The same idea of infinity is certainly within every non-living molecule, and therefore in the molecules of every living thing, as well.  God therefore exists in the mind of every thing and is experienced as conscious thought.  Basically, every man, woman, dog, plant, and hydrogen atom exist, in full, as god.

To most, these ideas may sound like insanity that a schizo experienced in several hallucinations.  And they are.  When I word it out, it sounds like insanity to me, as well.  But those hallucinations were simply my brain shutting down, allowing me to exist inside my subconsious mind for an amount of time.  I have received the criticisms before.  "That's just some drug induced insanity."  "You got your beliefs from the movie Pi."  Maybe, but I know what I saw, and I cannot believe anything else after I experienced it.  In other news, I am a former, confirmed Roman Catholic.  I had to label myself as something nowadays, I suppose it would be Buddhist.  I think Taoism is basically the exact same thing, but I haven't learned anything about it, yet.

The strongest piece of evidence that god is an asymptote is probably the fact that an orgasm is experienced as the feeling of a spring being streched into a straight line.  (Does the female orgasm feel like this?  I do not know.)

[CortJstr]

Basically whenever I start reading articles on id my eyes cross and I just stop caring after about a paragraph. Luckily the other day there was a one paragraph story about how part of the so-called "irreducible complexity problem" was just disproved when somebody somehow proved 2 "simple" systems can combine into one "irreducibly complex" one.

Also, I really wish the spell check worked on my browser but one of my extensions must be fuck*ng it up.

[Ben-San]

Two more pages while I wasn't looking, egad.

Dawg, my only point back there was that Paul was asking about religious experiences/experience with God, and not necessarily making Christianity work. If you've grown up Christian, odds are it's going to be a form of Christianity or one of its relatives that works best for you, but if you hear the words of the Buddha and they bring you light, don't let expectations of a Christian system stand in your way. Maybe it didn't need to be said, but in some cases it would have.

theinevitable, I've heard a few of my fellows say that Judaism is not predicated on belief in God. I don't agree with that, but I think that to be a Jew and accept Judaism does not require unwavering faith in God's existence. I feel (and so do many other Jews) that if God exists, He will be at least as pleased with someone who holds to His law without proof of reward as with somebody who does it out of unshakeable faith. What is it about Judaism that appealed to you?

[Mite]

My science teacher told us that most of the very cleverest scientists leading the field in astrophysics and the study of the Universe are actually theologians; apparently, after seeing how small the chances are for, say, the properties of a proton to be EXACTLY right for everything in the Universe to exist, they believe there must be some divine intervention.

It's very early, so I can't do this justice, but I'll point you toward the wikipedia article for the Strong Anthropic Principle. It's untestable, and therefore, not science. Sure it might be unlikely for a universe like this to evolve. But one obviously did, so let's study it. If a universe suitable for life to evolve didn't exist, life wouldn't be there to study it. It seems like a tautology, but it's subtle. I'll be available for questions after I've had coffee.

Yes, I am a (former) cosmologist. High-energy astrophysicist, actually. Well, I worked on couple of big experiments when I was an undergrad, at least. Would you believe I watched an episode of Cosmos once?

[pmcd9]

I have sensed that you are classy from your pictures in and around your car, aside from the one where you're flipping off your camera.

I was flipping off anyone that says I can't wear my headphones while driving.  Fuck that shit.  But you aren't a crap dude that I can tell so you won't get stabbed by me.  I'd watch my back (or jaw as the case may be) around that loony Mr. Q.  He's nuckin' futs.

~Paul

[theinevitable]

Ben-San-- I don't remember what exactly first drew me to it, but I then bought a book about the basic ideas of the faith, the different types (orthodox, reform, that other one which I forget the name of), etc. It was pretty interesting. I really just felt that the whole worldview somehow fit; a lot of the beliefs which put me off about religion were in a form that I could accept.

I believe the book was titled "What is a Jew?" but I don't remember.

The thing that really struck a chord with me was the way (especially in non-orthodox circles) that the commandments were, in some cases, re-examined. It seems like it's a faith very much based on personal faith and understanding, rather than a strict interpretation by some authority. This makes me sound like I'm saying "I like how you don't have to follow the rules", but that isn't what I mean. It just seems that the concepts of foregiveness, guilt, personal responsibility, etc. are in tune with (my view of) human nature.

[misterqueue]

I'd watch my back (or jaw as the case may be) around that loony Mr. Q.  He's nuckin' futs.

Paul speaks true... futs has been just beggin' for some serious nuckin' lately; and she has it coming.

*Stabs the air with my stabbin' arm*

A-CAPck! A-CAPck! A-CAPck!

[pmcd9]

It's His Nut!

~Paul

[smick]

Mmmm sweet sweet PBF.   

I like that this weeks had some continuity.   Also, Slim is looking good, he seems to have lost some weight... oh.

This weeks:
http://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/temporary/PBF096ADBoss.html

From Yesteryear
http://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/temporary/PBF078ADSlim.html

[pmcd9]

It's hard for me to take Christians seriously because they daily flood my inbox with treacly examples of Gods blessings.  The following is a pretty typical example..

~Paul

L I T T L E Things

As you might know, the head of a company survived
9/11 because his son started kindergarten.

Another fellow was alive because it was
his turn to bring donuts.

One woman was late because her
alarm clock didn't go off in time.

One was late because of being stuck on the NJ Turnpike
because of an auto accident.

One spilled food on her clothes and had to take
time to change.

One's
car wouldn't start.

One had a
child that dawdled and didn't get ready as soon as he should have.

The one that struck me was the man
who put on a new pair of shoes that morning,
took the various means to get to work
but before he got there, he developed
a blister on his foot.
He stopped at a drugstore to buy a band-aid.
That is why he is alive today.

Now when I am
stuck in traffic,
miss an elevator,
turn back to answer a ringing telephone...
all the little things that annoy me,
I think to myself,
this is exactly where
God wants me to be
at this very moment..

Next time your morning seems to be
going wrong, the children are slow getting dressed,
you can't seem to find the car keys,
you hit every traffic light,
don't get mad or frustrated;
God is at work watching over you.

May God continue to bless you
with all those annoying little things
and may you remember their possible purpose.

Pass this on to someone else, if you'd like.
There is NO LUCK attached.
If you delete this, it's okay:
God's Love Is Not Dependent On E-Mail!!  (that's the cool part)

AMEN