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[AlohaDawg]

I assume you're talking about air raids?

I think the British got a little ticked off at the constant bombing and V-1 and V-2 rocket attacks which were pretty indiscriminate (on London, which was not the center of British industry). The Germans also tended to have industrial cities which made it pretty hard (especially with WWII technology)(Even with the Norden Bomb Sight) to drop bombs precisely on factories, trainyards, etcetera and not hit the houses built right around them. Especially while dodging ack-ack.

No defending firebombing a city, though. That was pretty heinous. Although I think the US and not the Brits were responsible for that one.

France didn't get as bad a deal as Belgium - every war between 1700 and WWII that took place in Europe pretty march stomped through Belgium on the way from here to there.

In terms of the Italians and Japanese, I don't think the Italians fared much better than the French. I think it's a fine testimony to the trust in your military might when the Swiss are the closest guard to the papacy, though. Italy has had real problems maintaining a functioning government and stable economy.

The Japanse on the other hand I think got a pretty good deal overall....They were all over Asia starting in the 20's, did some savage stuff in Nanking, enlaved the Philippines and a bunch of other pacific Islands, and were a lot harder on POWs than the germans, brits, or yanks. Invasion of the Japanese Home Islands would have yielded causalties in the 10s of millions. So we demonstrated a weapon to them and they refused to surrender. So we used it once and they refused to surrender. So we used it again and they surrendered. And the US-administered  rebuilding of Japan (and the Japanese economy) resulted in one of the world's most powerful economies.

This is no defense of using Atomic weapons. The end is good (at the moment), the means are tough but it was always their option to surrender. I don't know how far down the target list Tokyo was but sacrificing Hiroshima and Nagasaki is probably considered a bad move in hindsight.

[Roger]

No defending firebombing a city, though. That was pretty heinous. Although I think the US and not the Brits were responsible for that one.

If you're talking about Dresden, it was the RAF and the USAAF. Pretty thorough job.

[1]

Is the Queen Mary down to second in the 'Awesome Things At Long Beach, CA', then?

Whoever's idea it was to put that thing there was a genius.

[theinevitable]

*slaps asherdan about*
you live in California! You get fresh with fine women, surf, and play twangy guitar parts on a regular basis!

you eat at In-n-out burger!

you drive down freeways with the top of your convertible down!

cops in cars!
the topless bars!
never saw a woman...
so alone.
So alone!
*honky-tonk-style piano solo*

wait... Long Beach?
Fuck that.

[wombat]

Only for a short time, the Missouri sailed off into mothballs at least a decade ago.

That must be a hell of a lot of mothballs.

[littlefallsmets]

Italy's ultimate problem is that... it's not really a country. It's five or six regions that sort of all decided that it would make sense to be a country, because they're all the same religion and pretty much the same religion and pretty much the same ethnicity and because they're all in the same area. On the one level, it makes sense but... on another, the regions are so different politically and economically and such that there's no real way to hold a parlimentary democracy together for any period of time.

One area wants fascists, one area wants communists, some guys want Catholicism as the basis of government, some guys wanna vote in a porn star just to be funny... some dudes vote in a guy whose whole platform is letting giraffeermen get rich, some people vote in a guy who thinks the mafia is A-OK by him.

But... unlike a whole lot of other places, at the end of the day, pretty much everyone's either Catholic or lapsed Catholic, so there's no religious problems to tear them apart, everyone speaks a close-to-mainstream dialect of Italian, everyone pretty much looks the same in terms of an ethnic feature set so... there's nothing really pressing to rip the kinda-country apart either.

It's like the bizarro version of Kurdistan.

[AugustWest]

That must be a hell of a lot of mothballs.

I always wondered how they got them out from between the moth's legs.  So tiny!

[AlohaDawg]

Before Aloha Dawg jumps in, The Missouri was moved from Bremerton, WA after being officially de-commissioned and struck from the Naval Registry in the mid '90's and moved to Pearl Harbor as part of the memorial. The Arizona signifies the beginning and the Missouri the end of that conflict. I'd like to get back to see that, as my last visit was before the changes.

It is awesome. If you can wait a few years, the whole Pearl Harbor National Memorial (not the monument over the Arizona, but the park and museum) is scheduled to have major, massive upgrading.

There are 4 cool attractions at Pearl Harbor: the Memorial and Museum which is awesome, the Missouri, which is really cool and fun to climb around in. She served in every conflict up to and including the Gulf War. In addition to the WWII armaments, there is an aegis missile defense system and a tomahawk battery on board as well.

The USS Bowfin, a decorated WWII submarine is moored nearby and the tour of that is a lot of fun too. They give you a headset audio tour and the voice giving the tour is the man who was the captain of the Bowfin during WWII.

The US Submarine Museum is right next to the bowfin, and has all kinds of very cool exhibits of parts from submarines, service flags from many subs, stories and history of sub actions. It's a really interesting place.


Edited out unfortunate real word typo not caught by spellchecker. Ouch.

[Hobot]

an aegis missile defense system

This is the second time today someone has used the word "aegis" (more or less) around me.  Crazy!  The first time was a mythological reference, though.

[misterqueue]

Oh god.. don't start with the mythology.  Next thing you know I will try and determine why Hephaestus would make a missle and then I'm two steps away from ancient slashfic and goddammit my parents are already disappointed in me enough.

[Drygioni]

Oh god.. don't start with the mythology.  Next thing you know I will try and determine why Hephaestus would make a missle and then I'm two steps away from ancient slashfic and goddammit my parents are already disappointed in me enough.

Thunderbolts were basically the nuclear missiles of their time though. It kept people in check, never really got used but when it did it was to horrifying results, and it enabled the owner of said weapons to basically do what he wanted. Like have sex with mortal ladies.

The Greek pantheon was the best in the whole of existence. This is true.

[misterqueue]

Well sure but let us consider Poseidon's three-pronged trident as a rather efficient weapon for its time as well.  Why three prongs though?  Was this a real improvement over a simplistic harpoon or was he overcompensating for maybe having scales below the belt? (Who would know?)  Did he just feel guilty that Aphrodite arose from his foamy jism?

In conclusion, GODDAMN YOU JUDY!

[1]

Thunderbolts were basically the nuclear missiles of their time though. It kept people in check, never really got used but when it did it was to horrifying results, and it enabled the owner of said weapons to basically do what he wanted. Like have sex with mortal ladies.

The Greek pantheon was the best in the whole of existence. This is true.

Possibly, but you can't beat Iceland for backwater insanity. As in, "elves cannot possibly have lived in these houses; they are small, and elves are the size of people". And their immesnsely long and dull sagas revolving around farming, thinking about fighting, farming, farming, killing, farming, cutting trees, planning vengeance, cutting down a few more trees, farming, finally gaining vengeance, leaving someone else to plan vengeance on said avenger, etc until everyone loses interest and they invent immigration, allowing them to leave the godforsaken island.

[Drygioni]

Well sure but let us consider Poseidon's three-pronged trident as a rather efficient weapon for its time as well.  Why three prongs though?  Was this a real improvement over a simplistic harpoon or was he overcompensating for maybe having scales below the belt? (Who would know?)  Did he just feel guilty that Aphrodite arose from his foamy jism?

In conclusion, GODDAMN YOU JUDY!

And what about Ares? Was his portrayal as a soldier decked in the gear of a hoplite detrimental to the pious Greeks who refused to change their styles of battle in the face of the Roman war machine, due to the idea that the way a god of War is dressed must be the correct battle gear?

Alright, I'll stop.

[Hobot]

Well sure but let us consider Poseidon's three-pronged trident as a rather efficient weapon for its time as well.  Why three prongs though?  Was this a real improvement over a simplistic harpoon or was he overcompensating for maybe having scales below the belt? (Who would know?)  Did he just feel guilty that Aphrodite arose from his foamy jism?

Second time I've heard this story today, too.