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[wombat]

saving animals no one else thought cute or cuddly enough to save.

This seems worth emphasizing, although of course I am prejudiced. You could still wish he'd done it in a less sensationalistic way. But I guess one thing to remember is that you can't educate people unless you get their attention.

I'm still ambivalent about the guy, but Bobby's impassioned defense of giving a damn has softened my position.

[AugustWest]

I don't have an opinion either way on Steve Irwin, but, hey, A+ on the rant Bobby.

[jough]

I never thought I'd be writing these words, but that was a well- thought-out and considered post, Bobby.

[Bobby Isosceles]

I never thought I'd be writing these words, but that was a well- thought-out and considered post, Bobby.

Although it was missing key points of grammar due to my indignance. I mean, the dude was so obviously a mensch, and all the hipness in the world doesn't excuse faking blindness to that. I totally poured a can of foster's for that big pimpin' motherfucker.

[V-Adore]

Yeah, I have to copy this: while I never expected to write the sentence "I am in complete accordance with Bobby's opinion and applaud his post," I am in complete accordance &c. Well-said. While I think it's fair to have complaints about Irwin's style, the good work he did with conservation is very clear, and I think it's rather silly to claim he "deserved" some kind of karmic retribution from the animal kingdom. (As mentioned upthread, he didn't even provoke the stingray that killed him; with anyone else, the world would have written it off as a freak diving accident, as it almost certainly was.) Whatever you think of gonzo nature journalism, the dude did a dangerous but valuable job (conservation of dangerous animals) and died while doing it.

[Doc]

I was going to stay out of this one because I thought most of the 'I'm glad he's dead' sentiments weren't really serious and I didn't want to get all self-righteous but yeah, Bobby illustrated my thoughts nicely, as worrying a sign as that is.

I'd also point out that he (Steve Irwin, not Bobby) didn't just do conservation by taking animals to his zoo and such he poured quite a chunk of change into buying up Australian bushland, so while I always felt a bit embarrassed about how he made the rest of the world think Australians acted he did a lot of good and its a bummer he's gone.

Small bit of self-righteousness: A lot of comments I've seen (more on slashdot, fark etc. not here) are along the lines of 'if you mess with dangerous animals for so long something is going to happen to you' I just feel it's worth pointing out that the dude had been doing this stuff for near 20 years now so while he may have acted like an idiot  it's not like he just happened to be lucky all that time, dude knew what he was doing.

[Bobby Isosceles]

Small bit of self-righteousness: A lot of comments I've seen (more on slashdot, fark etc. not here) are along the lines of 'if you mess with dangerous animals for so long something is going to happen to you' I just feel it's worth pointing out that the dude had been doing this stuff for near 20 years now so while he may have acted like an idiot  it's not like he just happened to be lucky all that time, dude knew what he was doing.

Thank you for noticing that. A person whose area of expertise is large land carnivores, specifically reptiles, specifically crocodilians, is going to be out of his element somewhat with rays. Animals, especially lesser vertebrates, are going to behave rather deterministically. People who say wild animals are unpredictable are doing the biological equivalent of what Arthur C. Clarke said about a sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic. If you don't know the triggers that cause a crocodile to snap, or lunge, or do the death roll, then you're going to assume it's unpredictable. Reptilians, felines, canines, bears, birds,  and even shrews all have their own triggers, that if understood can be dealt with as reliably as a machine, but if not understood, can be the bane of you.

This can be seen in private homes every day when you see a cat person dealing expertly with a cat, but a dog person not doing so well with it, because dog person is used to an animal that likes to be rushed head on, and cat person knows cats will instinctively respond to that as a threat.

It should be noted that, but for this freak accident, Steve Irwin was NEVER seriously injured by an animal. Not one in about two decades. I simply cannot accept this level of blase schadenfreude from idiotic armchair judges.

[linnea]

Stooping to attacks ad hominem and calling people "idiotic armchair judges" for making opinion statements about Steve Irwin's oeuvre isn't doing the dead Aussie any favors, Bobby. Heaven help the imaginary people on the intarwub for saying something that offends you. Mea culpa. 

[Choop]

No, Bobby! Too far!

[side_show]

I get what you're saying Bobby, and it's nice that you appreciate the guy for appearing to be genuine.  I am just as enthusiastic of a geek as he was when it comes to certain things in my life.  And this is probably why the few people who love me love me too.  

True, I'm cynical about these things, and about life in general (depending on what day you get me on), but I don't think dismissing us cynics as "hipsters" (which is apparently an insult now?), is all that fair.  I don't think it's all that idiotic to laugh at the death of a celebrty who has consistantly chosen to present himself as a cartoon - it seems like a pretty natural reaction.  It was a natural reaction for me.  I didn't think about it, then, like, chose to laugh.  I was still in bed and being humped at the time, and I laughed.  

Beyond my immediate reaction to laugh at the initial announcement, I've put careful thought into my own take on media manipulation over the years, and that I still find it funny, comes from a genuine place, from careful thought into what I value and discount in life - not something studied or crafted to suit some imaginary hip-quotent that I don't even consider when decided how I feel.  What it boils down to is that I hate the cult of celebrity and the fact that every channel has been mourning this guys' death for days now, having constant updates, using it as the leader in every news break.  Am I confused, or is there a war on?  An AIDS crisis?  A debate over issues like stem cell research, genetically modified food?  Did all those real issues get solved on Saturday night and I just missed it?  Canada had five soldiers die in Afghanistan on the day Irwin died, but guess who got the front page on both local papers? The ridiculous death of a person I did not know and who had no direct impact on my life (apart from spurring me to change the channel) is not important to me.  It's laughable for me.  It's a piffle spun into something way, way too large.  I can't be convinced to care or be pulled into some media manufactured psychodrama.  

When I die one day, if someone laughs at my stupid life (or even better, my stupid death), well that would be fantastic, but what is more likely to happen, what I would prefer to have happen is nothing.  And all the better for it.  I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who court celebrity.  Creating an image, marketing yourself... that's the dark night of the soul to me.  In my book, the choice to become a celebrity, to pursue fame, inevitably comes from a place of vanity.  Me not trust pale face and face puller machine!  Being in front of cameras, feeding directly into the image that sells - in take after take, shot after shot - is not something I place very low value to - humility and grace are traits I put so very much more weight on.  

I'm certainly not accusing any of the pro-Steve camp of falling for manipulation, you're smart enough to know all this stuff I just ranted about, and still you like the guy, he made you laugh, maybe he even touched you as being the genuine article, he did stuff that you admire.  I don't say you're wrong for your sweet hearted reasons.  Or for taking simple pleasure in watching whatever T.V. show you care to watch.  Me, I don't give a fuck.  If Brad and Angelina and their United Nation of babies all crashed in the middle of the ocean, I'd feel just the same, which is basically nothing.  And if how they died was funny in some way - say something involving drowning in UNICEF nickles on Halloween, then maybe I'd get a little chuckle out of that one too.

I guess there's a line you cross, a line where you either find the Darwin Awards funny or not. And there's also the line where you care about the life and times of the person on the cover of US this week or not.  And for me, these lines have sort of tangled here.  I have a lot of human compassion, and I think that shows in most of my posts, but when strangers die in silly, unexpected or ironic ways, I find it funny.  I laugh.  I mean, I'm not a huge fan of death or anything, but I don't really hold death all that sacrid either.  I do find the confirmation that we are all stupid monkeys in the end, well, sort of a relief.

Or to sum it all up in a less rambling way: Bobby, is it okay if I make a joke if you're killed in a freak accident with a geometry set's isosceles triangle?  Because I basically expect everyone to crack jokes if I am killed in some circus side show accident.  It's basically required.

[Bobby Isosceles]

Or to sum it all up in a less rambling way: Bobby, is it okay if I make a joke if you're killed in a freak accident with a geometry set's isosceles triangle?

No.

[Pimp_skitters]

  I love that post, Side_Show! I'd give a standing ovation but the blank space of wall above my computer wouldn't appreciate it.
 Though, considering Bobby's objections, it makes me wonder about the avatar...

 

  ...but I don't think dismissing us cynics as "hipsters" (which is apparently an insult now?)

The stereotypical New York hipster, or bohemian, wore a beret, dressed frequently in black, smoked mentholated Kool cigarettes, wore sunglasses even after sundown, and frequented jazz clubs and beat poetry coffeehouses and cafés in the Village.

-Wikipedia: Hipster

[side_show]

Heh.  Yeah, that definition definitly makes "hipster" an insult.  None of it describes me, though.  I've never even been to New York.  Plus, no one has ever called me hip or cool or any of those what-I-consider-to-be complimentary terms.  I did wear a grey shirt yesterday.  Does that count?  Today I'm wearing hip-hugger jeans... I bought them with holes in them...maybe then...?  No.  No?  Okay.

And Bobby, I promise if a horrible/ironic/odd fate befalls you, I will keep the wise cracks to myself. 

[AugustWest]

Bobby can obviously speak for himself, but I read his original rant as directed toward those who made serious criticisms of Steve Irwin rather than those who engaged in gallows humor.

I agree with both Bobby and Smells and I don't think it's at all inconsistent.

[side_show]

Yeah, it wasn't all that clear to me if Bobby was talking about some media persons he'd seen, or if he was addressing me or Linnea or whoever.  Then, thinking about it, that made me realize that I didn't make clear exactly where my oh-so-rough-chuckles were coming from or why, so I was posting more as a means of setting out my take of things clear than to initiate any sort of debate.