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[dejavroom]

But the point wasn't someone saying "I am not attracted to males because I am straight". What was said was "I can't understand - the male form is ugly".

That's why I said I thought it was a matter of getting it or not getting it... as for mentioning the sexual aspects, really, they're only inevitable in this type of discussion. Anyhow, please continue, it's hella (I'm saying hella too much, which is lame) it's groin-grabbingly interesting.

[Arachno-capitalist]

I'd tell you how to get a job working with me, but you'd just say shit like this all the time.

I.... I.... damn.

[Bobby Isosceles]

So… Didn't a person of Finnish descent join this board not so long ago?

Yes, Raymo Smookels. He is an inventor.

[Nabubrush]

I.... I.... damn.

All I can say in my defense is that these last two weeks at work have been especially trying.

[iron_felix]

Personally, I picture Tom of Finland, just on an international level.

(I would like to say I regret that my first two associations with the word "Finland" are extremely muscular, hypermasculine gay porn and Moomintrolls, but I can't actually say I do regret it...)

I don't know what it says about me that my own first association with the word "Finland" was Pekka and Toivonen jokes.  Probably nothing good.

Also, Chuano, the theatre I work at is about to tour "Comet in Moominland" to New York, and I get on pretty well with the actors.  If you'd like I could arrange a private Moomin' Porno show to break you of both fears at once.

Would our hypothetical Moominporn involve the Hobgoblin's Hat?  That could get interesting.  Or should we go for a different approach, with BDSM Hattifattener sex and the Groke sitting on things?

[Alternate]

A fat dude looks like some sort of deformed animal, a muscular dude looks like a machine for lifting things, a skinny dude looks like a cartoon character.

The body of a fat man -- especially one who walks with confidence -- is an expression of pride in taking up space.  It is luxuriously abundant, and undeniably real. 

A muscular man's body is a machine for sailing halfway around the world -- for climbing high in a tall ship's rigging, and looking down at the sea. 

A thin man's body is a window into the intricate mysteries of anatomy.  It is a story of muscle sliding over bone, of bone hinging under muscle, of life beginning, of life changing, of life ending.  It is, as you say, a reminder that we are animals, that we have been born, and that we are going to die. 

And it is precisely this that makes it so blindingly, heartbreakingly beautiful.

[Alternate]

Oh, and as for the aesthetic appeal of man-parts: Let's just say that if the good doctor Pavlov showed you, say, a jar of mayonnaise every time you were about to get laid, you might start to find mayonnaise jars pretty easy on the eyes.

[Teatime]

This bi dude's perspective: Excessive hair on men and women is, while not actively repulsive, less attractive than shaving. I think c*ckes are not necessarily ugly, but frankly a little comical in structure. Whatever. They do the job. Think of pu$$ys (or, y'know, don't). When you were twelve (or whenever), did you find them appealing, or did their appeal grow as their function became clearer?

Otherwise, I think that while women are generally more aesthetically pleasing, men, particularly pleasantly muscled men, are staggeringly more attractive in their manliness.

[wombat]

Oh, and as for the aesthetic appeal of man-parts: Let's just say that if the good doctor Pavlov showed you, say, a jar of mayonnaise every time you were about to get laid, you might start to find mayonnaise jars pretty easy on the eyes.

Yes, this is exactly right.

[Golfhaus]

This thread has been an interesting read for me. I have agreed with everything that Nabu has said... and yet I find myself on lfmets's side.

I agree, for instance, that hetero-to-homo is a sliding scale, not a binary switch. But I think I'm all the way to one side. If the scale has 100 grades, I would be hard-pressed to justify calling myself anything but 100-0 hetero. At the most, 99-1. Y'know, if I catch myself humming the tune of "America" from West Side Story or something.

I, too, have often wondered how so many people in the world could find men attractive. And I think mets's description of things does it for me. The female form has an elegance to it, a sort of... evolution to it. Maybe it's because, like Nabu said, society trends men towards straight, and women towards bi. Maybe in a more "enlightened" society, I would have been raised to appreciate the elegance and beauty of the male form. But I wasn't. As a result, I don't see it. And I don't really care to, either. The view is good from where I sit.

Again, strange. Nabu's ideas are intriguing to me, but I'm subscribing to lfm's newsletter.

[littlefallsmets]

The body of a fat man -- especially one who walks with confidence -- is an expression of pride in taking up space.  It is luxuriously abundant, and undeniably real.

Okay. I now know who I'm hiring to write my PR when I am Completely Famous.

You have made the physical manifestation of my laziness sound awesome.

The Pavlov's Wang explanation does make a good deal of sense.

My dad said he was the same way with "Terms of Endearment".

It is a Terrible Movie but it caused Mom to want to have sex with him so he eventually dug it.

This analogy is worthy and, indeed, can-worthy.

[musososeki]

the pavlov thing, that's not a stupid way to look at it. the important thing is the sex act itself, not the person who facilitates it. moreover, you're extremely vulnerable while having sex, so in terms of attraction we maintain some bigotries. you might be as englightened as anyone in terms of how you carry yourself, but sex with a person of another race, another gender, another age: these are terrifying prospects. these people LOOK unfamiliar, and so how could you ever know their motives??? won't they stab you when you come?

i think trust is a visceral response (e.g. this asian chick will never leave me, that's against her culture). i think every baby in the world is born trusting everyone, and after 3, 4 years, it's been hurt enough that it begins to lose some of that trust, for some people. and it won't describe those people in academic terms, not having access to language like that, but instead in how she might describle them to a sketch artist: height, skin color, attitude, tattoos... obvious things. and that's the end; it's as hard to reprogram yourself after being set in those views as it is to learn a new language when you're 30.

this is how i feel about the thing, but it's only my second post, and everybody here is a lot smarter than me (schmucks). a guy who doesn't like dicks is a guy who's afraid of dicks. this i'm sure of. likewise, homophobia is not a proper 'phobia'; rather, it's psychologically more similar to hivemind racehatred. 

just be gentle. love is the message.

(i'm 80% gay and LOVE achewood, plus i'm pretty brittle, so don't get too rough on me. i'm a friend and ally!!!)

love,
adam

ps so screw you guys for being so down on teodor, who i've had a crush on ever since his archie haircut! http://achewood.com/index.php?date=12182001

[Nabubrush]

Two posts in and already at -6 cans. Nice work. Of course, your first post was pretty fucked. However, you are making an attempt at redeeming yourself, so what the hell. Keep trying, would ya?

[linnea]

It's really funny to hear heterosexual men pontificating about gay culture and Kinsey's continuum.

[littlefallsmets]

Well, we're also talking about alive stuffed animals and cats what talk.

I definitely know more homosexuals than alive stuffed animals and cats what talk, even though I am none of those three things.