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[Doc]

That Olbermann is a sassy fellow.
I love reading about american politics, it's my number 1 time waster when I'm not busy at work.
You guys just take it so gosh-darn seriously, it's adorable.

[Limmo]

I've felt a little bit bad for Tony Snow lately, having to be the spokesperson for King George and President Cheney.

That part about feeling bad for Tony Snow?  Ended as soon as I read this today:

Surveying the scene, Snow declares himself "proud" of the president, a man who "believes pardons and commutations should reflect a genuine determination to strengthen the rule of law and increase public faith in government."

Do we live in the fuck*ng BIZARRO UNIVERSE NOW? 

[Nabubrush]

Surveying the scene carnage, Snow declares himself "proud" of the president, a man who "believes pardons and commutations should reflect a genuine determination to strengthen the rule of law and increase public faith in government."

Just dialled that in a touch, there.

[Limmo]

Thanks.

[Carlos del Vaca]

Do we live in the fuck*ng BIZARRO UNIVERSE NOW? 

Don't forget, Tony Snow came straight over from Fox News.  The Kool-Aid has long run through his veins.

[Limmo]

Oh, I'm aware of Mr. Snow's background.  It just seems like Bush has spit in the face of an entire country with the Libby decision, and now that Bush is finished with us, here comes Tony Snow to give us a facial too. 

[RMJ12345]

I'm not that pissed about Bush pardoning Libby, if it happens. Two and a half years in jail seems like an overly long sentence to me. I generally don't think that people who have been convicted of nonviolent crimes should be put in jail for that long period. I certainly think he deserves some kind of jail time, but I don't think that he should be serving a sentence that represents the judgment of a collective group of people.

What pisses me off is how many other people have done fairly treasonous things, and they're not even on trial. Frankly, if Bush's pardon of Libby brings closer scrutiny of the administration's involvement in the Plame affair, I say bring it on, because the worst guys in this case do not seem to be on trial. Where are Card and Rove and all the other evildoers in this? How have they escaped judgement?

Then again, I am not terrifically well-informed on this case.

[Limmo]

I don't think that he should be serving a sentence that represents the judgment of a collective group of people.

 

[RMJ12345]

As in, I think that the judge's harsh sentence (it was almost a year more than the recommended sentence) reflected the consensus on the actions of the administration rather than Libby's actions specifically - punishing him for the sins of Cheney, Rove, and Card in addition to his own.

[littlefallsmets]

Here's the thing, though, Rumjay... that's the closest anyone's ever going to get to punishing these fuck*ng bastards and jackals.

Putting the vice president's assistant in jail for two years. That was the closest we were ever gonna get. Judge knew it, that's why he threw the book at the little snakeman.

And even that... erased with the flick of a pen.

[Nabubrush]

I understand that if he gets a full pardon he cannot hide behind the fifth, as he would be able to if he only had the sentence commuted - but I probably screwed that up.

[Golfhaus]

I like the new twist, which I learned on Olbermann (thanks, Nabu!), which is that there's a chance the judge can't even give him the probation now, because the probation may have to follow a prison sentence, and with no prison sentence, the prerequisite is no longer there. The fine may be all we get from him. And as they mentioned on this same show, when you are given a fine like that, and you can have it paid in two hours, how painful is it really?

It's crazy to think that after six years, Bush STILL hasn't figured out how to use the tools at his disposal without jacking it up.

[pmcd9]

I thought my rose garden comment was very funny.  What, no Lynn Anderson fans here?

[RMJ12345]

Here's the thing, though, Rumjay... that's the closest anyone's ever going to get to punishing these fuck*ng bastards and jackals.

Putting the vice president's assistant in jail for two years. That was the closest we were ever gonna get. Judge knew it, that's why he threw the book at the little snakeman.

And even that... erased with the flick of a pen.

Yeahhhh, I understand that, but it's not fair or just to make one man pay for the misdeeds of a collective group. I think that making someone a scapegoat and punishing them "extra" for things that they didn't do is not much more just than the fact that the other individuals got away with it.

I don't see how being unfair to one man in particular is going to make that fact better. His life has been ruined (as well it should have been - that is his true punishment other than jail, the shame), and he will spend some time away from his family in a terrible place. In contrast to Cheney, Rove, and Card, who come out relatively unscathed and really did most of the worst treachery, how is the extra misery of another year in jail upon the ruination of Libby's life really making all that right? He did some terrible things, but it's not fair to rub his face as a way of paying penance for letting all the others off.

The Bush administration has no sense of justice. Why should we follow their example as a response to it?


Additionally, I think Bush would be less pressured to pardon him if he were punished more fairly, and he would be more likely to serve at least some of the time that he deserves to serve.

[Nabubrush]

I don't see how being unfair to one man in particular is going to make that fact better. His life has been ruined (as well it should have been - that is his true punishment other than jail, the shame), and he will spend some time away from his family in a terrible place.

This does not match up to my understanding of the way things work for people in power in the US.